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From Dave Brondsema <d...@brondsema.net>
Subject Re: [VOTE] Graduation of Apache Allura from the Incubator
Date Sun, 16 Mar 2014 03:43:44 GMT
On 3/14/14 8:19 PM, sebb wrote:
> On 14 March 2014 20:16, Cory Johns <johnsca@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Ok, I think we've addressed all of the issues.  Namely:
>>
>> * The status page (http://incubator.staging.apache.org/projects/allura.html)
>> has been updated, and now the correct canonical project web page (namely
>> https://forge-allura.apache.org/p/allura/), as well as having an improved
>> project description, links to the docs, and updated news items
>>
>> * The aforementioned docs are now hosted at
>> https://forge-allura.apache.org/docs/ (which is also linked to from the
>> main project page at https://forge-allura.apache.org/p/allura/)
>>
>> * The footer on https://forge-allura.apache.org/p/allura/ has been fixed
>> with the correct trademark and copyright information and links
>>
>> * All Apache Allura (incubating) references have been corrected on
>> http://incubator.staging.apache.org/projects/allura.html,
>> https://forge-allura.apache.org/p/allura/, and
>> https://sourceforge.net/projects/allura/
>>
>> Additionally, the unused page at http://incubator.apache.org/allura/ has
>> been updated to automatically redirect to the main project page at
>> https://forge-allura.apache.org/p/allura/, and its associated (unused)
>> download page has been updated with a link to the releases repository, so
>> that they are useful for people who may have bookmarked them previously,
>> even though they are no longer linked to from anywhere.
>>
>> This should cover all of the concerns that have been raised thus far, save
>> for the location of the issue tracker which, as previously mentioned, is a
>> difficult undertaking that will be addressed in the future (and the status
>> page indicates this).
> 
> Well, there is still the issue of the download page.
> There does not seem to be any way to find it from the new site.

There's a download button in the middle of the page.

> 
> Also there are some branding requirements that are missing from the site.
> 
> See http://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/pmcs.html
> 
> In particular
> 
> http://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/pmcs.html#navigation

I've added these links to our main navigation page.  I've also added the ™ as
required.

Thanks for your feedback on all this.  Is there anything else we're missing for
graduation?

> 
>> With these changes, we are hopeful that we can proceed with and pass the
>> graduation vote.
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 14, 2014 at 8:18 AM, sebb <sebbaz@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> If the home page really is
>>>
>>> [1] http://forge-allura.apache.org/p/allura
>>>
>>> then why does the status page
>>>
>>> [2] http://incubator.apache.org/projects/allura.html
>>>
>>> point to
>>>
>>> [3] http://incubator.apache.org/allura/ ?
>>>
>>> The host [1] is described on the status page [2] as being the Wiki,
>>> which is normally separate from the project page.
>>>
>>> There seems to be very little on [3] that is not on [1] so it could
>>> probably be dropped.
>>>
>>> However the Wiki [1] does not have the correct footer, it only says:
>>>
>>> "This project is powered by Allura."
>>>
>>> That should be Apache Allura.
>>> And the pages also need the standard trademark attributions.
>>> The site [3] does have the following:
>>>
>>>>>
>>> Copyright © 2011 The Apache Software Foundation, Licensed under the
>>> Apache License, Version 2.0.
>>> Apache and the Apache feather logo are trademarks of The Apache
>>> Software Foundation.
>>> <<
>>>
>>> However that fails to mention Apache Allura and Allura as being
>>> trademarks of the ASF.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 14 March 2014 04:32, Dave Brondsema <dave@brondsema.net> wrote:
>>>> On 03/13/2014 10:00 PM, David Nalley wrote:
>>>>> On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 9:54 PM, David Nalley <david@gnsa.us> wrote:
>>>>>> On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 1:29 PM, Roman Shaposhnik <rvs@apache.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> After looking at it for some time, my optimistic outlook
>>>>>>> on the project would be +0 vote at best.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On the plus side, the community seems to be really active
>>>>>>> and reasonably diverse. But if feels, like ASF has not yet
>>>>>>> become a true home for the project.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Here's what I'm talking about: as a casual bystander who
>>>>>>> was trying to view Allura as an ASF project -- I had difficult
>>>>>>> time. First of all, I couldn't even get to the releases easily
>>>>>>> enough: https://incubator.apache.org/allura/downloads.html
>>>>>>> When I managed to get there the first thing that the README
>>>>>>> instructed me to do is to go to https://forge-allura.apache.org/
>>>>>>> What is that? How does it relate to the project?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In fact, from the dev list it feels like there may be yet another
>>>>>>> canonical place for the Allura -- over at sourceforge:
>>>>>>>
>>> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-allura-dev/201402.mbox/%3C52F80CA5.8060209%40brondsema.net%3E
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I am not quite sure if penalizing the project with a failed graduation
>>>>>>> vote is the right thing to do, but the state of the outwards
facing
>>>>>>> project assets doesn't inspire a feel of a strong ASF community
in me
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Just my 2c worth of feedback.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The projects bug tracker also seems to be at sourceforge.net, which
>>>>>> means you need a sf.net account to participate in the project. Based
>>>>>> on a quick perusal most of the dev@ traffic seems to be bug tracker
-
>>>>>> which means most of this is happening at SourceForge. I don't know
>>>>>> that this is really problematic - we do have projects using github
as
>>>>>> the main portion of the contribution workflow, but it does give me
>>>>>> pause.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I also see http://sf.net/p/allura - which bears a SF logo, and which
>>>>>> doesn't note the fact that the project is at the incubator until
1/2
>>>>>> down the page. And nowhere on the page is it referred to as Apache
>>>>>> Allura. From a standpoint of the project which is supposed to be
>>>>>> policing its brand, this leaves me a bit worried - this page shows
an
>>>>>> update to that page recently; and appears at least to the outside
>>>>>> world to be the nexus for the project and maintained by members of
the
>>>>>> PPMC.  (first return on Google is the sourceforge link.) To be clear
>>>>>> other projects have listings at Sourceforge, so aside from the brand
>>>>>> and trademark policing that needs to happen, I am not sure the
>>>>>> existence of the page is much to be concerned about.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There's a notice on the page that reads: "Some project information
is
>>>>>> still at SourceForge during this transition period." and indeed,
>>>>>> there's http://allura.sourceforge.net/docs/ which looks surprisingly
>>>>>> good when compared with http://incubator.apache.org/allura which
>>>>>> doesn't have a working bug tracker link, and steps listed for building
>>>>>> Allura consists of 'TODO'. All of the content from the allure source
>>>>>> forge site appears to be in the Apache Allura git repo, so I am
>>>>>> curious why it isn't published at the ASF. And again, we have projects
>>>>>> who host documentation at ReadTheDocs, so I am not sure that
>>>>>> documentation living elsewhere is an inherent problem, but it gives
me
>>>>>> pause.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Individually I don't know that any of these are problematic; but
I am
>>>>>> curious what the mentors take on it is.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --David
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> And it's just dawned on me what's happening.
>>>>> The project is using http://forge-allura.apache.org/p/allura as it's
>>>>> home page instead of http://incubator.apache.org/allura which appears
>>>>> to have all of the appropriate content (according to a google cache)
>>>>> but is down right now. It's making more sense; is the intention to
>>>>> make that the project home page? (e.g. allura.apache.org)
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You got it!  (And bad timing that it was down for several hours today -
>>>> its back up now).
>>>>
>>>> Roman and sebb had similar comments to yours, so I'll respond in a
>>>> single email.
>>>>
>>>> We are self-hosting at http://forge-allura.apache.org/p/allura so that
>>>> is really our "home page".  It has a clear download link, and git browse
>>>> link, and the text doesn't equate the project == the software.  But it
>>>> is missing a link to http://www.apache.org/licenses/LICENSE-2.0.  (Note
>>>> this domain forge-allura.a.o also has the future potential to be a
>>>> project hosting platform for other interested Apache projects besides
>>>> Allura itself)
>>>>
>>>> http://incubator.apache.org/allura is not maintained as is obvious.
>>>> That should just go away or be redirected to
>>>> forge-allura.apache.org/p/allura  Similarly when we're a TLP,
>>>> allura.apache.org can just redirect there.
>>>>
>>>> We should update http://sf.net/p/allura to remove the SF logo, and
>>>> clearly identify it as Apache Allura and incubating, so it adheres with
>>>> Apache branding guidelines.
>>>>
>>>> The docs at http://allura.sourceforge.net/docs/ could be moved to live
>>>> at a URL like http://forge-allura.apache.org/p/allura/docs with a little
>>>> work.  No reason not to.
>>>>
>>>> Tickets are the other item still on SourceForge.  We do want to move
>>>> them over to the forge-allura.a.o host, but to be frank its going to be
>>>> quite a lot of work and we haven't gotten to it.  The SourceForge ticket
>>>> tracker is configured to send ticket activity to the allura-dev list so
>>>> there is visibility and transparency to ticket activity.  We didn't
>>>> think it'd be a graduation blocker to have tickets on a different host.
>>>>  As has been mentioned, other projects have tickets elsewhere too.
>>>>
>>>> I hope this helps clarify the situation.  We will work on polishing up
>>>> the remaining rough edges (perhaps everything except tickets location)
>>>> in the next few days and then provide an update again on this thread.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Dave Brondsema : dave@brondsema.net
>>>> http://www.brondsema.net : personal
>>>> http://www.splike.com : programming
>>>>                <><
>>>>
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-- 
Dave Brondsema : dave@brondsema.net
http://www.brondsema.net : personal
http://www.splike.com : programming
              <><

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