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From David Jencks <david_jen...@yahoo.com>
Subject Re: [DISCUSS] [VOTE] Graduation of Apache Spark from the Incubator
Date Mon, 10 Feb 2014 01:41:33 GMT
I agree with Joe, voting on a moving target is not going to produce a result anyone can look
back on and understand.  Chris, you may be able to understand what is happening but I'm having
trouble from my attempts to follow this thread.

thanks
david jencks

On Feb 9, 2014, at 5:29 PM, Joseph Schaefer <joe_schaefer@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Chris no offense but all we can do is vote on what you put in front of us.  As soon as
you realized that that document was a mess the vote should have been cancelled.  Right now
you have no clear picture of what each vote *means* because the thing we are supposed to be
approving is in flux.  Right now you have people voting on the subject on moral grounds, eg
whether the project deserves to graduate, all mixed in with votes cast on technical objective
grounds.  The only way to fix this is with a fresh start IMO.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Feb 9, 2014, at 8:19 PM, "Mattmann, Chris A (3980)" <chris.a.mattmann@jpl.nasa.gov>
wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Sebb,
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> 
>> From: sebb <sebbaz@gmail.com>
>> Reply-To: "general@incubator.apache.org" <general@incubator.apache.org>
>> Date: Sunday, February 9, 2014 4:39 PM
>> To: "general@incubator.apache.org" <general@incubator.apache.org>
>> Subject: Re: [VOTE] Graduation of Apache Spark from the Incubator
>> 
>>> On 9 February 2014 17:11, Mattmann, Chris A (3980)
>>> <chris.a.mattmann@jpl.nasa.gov> wrote:
>>>> Thanks Matei and sebb.
>>>> 
>>>> Starting a new thread and collecting the VOTEs all over again would be
>>>> time consuming.
>>> 
>>> So?
>> 
>> I don't appreciate this tone -- what do you mean "so"?
>> 
>>> 
>>> Better to than being confusing, as the current thread has become.
>> 
>> The thread's not confusing to me at all -- The diligence to update
>> the resolution to the specific Apache IDs has been performed by Matei,
>> so that work is done. I'll make the typo fix in the pasted board
>> resolution,
>> so that will be done too.
>> 
>>> 
>>> Also it may not be clear whether new votes are intended for the update
>>> resolution or the old one.
>>> 
>>> Do the original votes even count for the amended resolution?
>> 
>> Actually it's quite clear to me and to those who VOTEd, some multiple
>> times.
>> If folks have an issue as I mentioned, I've left the VOTE open for quite a
>> long
>> bit of time and am closing it tomorrow. That's plenty of time for folks to
>> amend
>> their VOTE should they have wanted to.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> Chris
>> 
>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: sebb <sebbaz@gmail.com>
>>>> Reply-To: "general@incubator.apache.org" <general@incubator.apache.org>
>>>> Date: Sunday, February 9, 2014 7:10 AM
>>>> To: "general@incubator.apache.org" <general@incubator.apache.org>
>>>> Subject: Re: [VOTE] Graduation of Apache Spark from the Incubator
>>>> 
>>>>> I think it would be better to start a new thread with the updated text.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Also, the two scope descriptions are slightly different:
>>>>> 
>>>>> "related to fast and flexible large-scale data analysis
>>>>> on clusters."
>>>>> 
>>>>> v.
>>>>> 
>>>>> "related to efficient cluster management, resource isolation
>>>>> and sharing across distributed applications"
>>>>> 
>>>>> I don't know whether that is important or not.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 8 February 2014 22:46, Matei Zaharia <matei.zaharia@gmail.com>
wrote:
>>>>>> Thanks everyone for the votes. Since we now have accounts for
>>>>>> everyone,
>>>>>> I've updated the committer list below to include ASF IDs. Thanks
to
>>>>>> INFRA, we also now have both pull request postings and comments on
them
>>>>>> forwarded to the our mailing list.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> ---- snip
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it to be in the best
>>>>>> interests of the Foundation and consistent with the
>>>>>> Foundation's purpose to establish a Project Management
>>>>>> Committee charged with the creation and maintenance of
>>>>>> open-source software, for distribution at no charge to the
>>>>>> public, related to fast and flexible large-scale data analysis
>>>>>> on clusters.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that a Project Management
>>>>>> Committee (PMC), to be known as the "Apache Spark Project", be
>>>>>> and hereby is established pursuant to Bylaws of the Foundation;
>>>>>> and be it further
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> RESOLVED, that the Apache Spark Project be and hereby is
>>>>>> responsible for the creation and maintenance of software
>>>>>> related to efficient cluster management, resource isolation
>>>>>> and sharing across distributed applications; and be it further
>>>>>> RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Apache Spark" be
>>>>>> and hereby is created, the person holding such office to serve
>>>>>> at the direction of the Board of Directors as the chair of the
>>>>>> Apache Spark Project, and to have primary responsibility for
>>>>>> management of the projects within the scope of responsibility
>>>>>> of the Apache Spark Project; and be it further
>>>>>> RESOLVED, that the persons listed immediately below be and
>>>>>> hereby are appointed to serve as the initial members of the
>>>>>> Apache Spark Project:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> * Mosharaf Chowdhury <mosharaf@apache.org>
>>>>>> * Jason Dai <jasondai@apache.org>
>>>>>> * Tathagata Das <tdas@apache.org>
>>>>>> * Ankur Dave <ankurdave@apache.org>
>>>>>> * Aaron Davidson <adav@apache.org>
>>>>>> * Thomas Dudziak <tomdz@apache.org>
>>>>>> * Robert Evans <bobby@apache.org>
>>>>>> * Thomas Graves <tgraves@apache.org>
>>>>>> * Andy Konwinski <andrew@apache.org>
>>>>>> * Stephen Haberman <stephenh@apache.org>
>>>>>> * Mark Hamstra <markhamstra@apache.org>
>>>>>> * Shane Huang <shane_huang@apache.org>
>>>>>> * Ryan LeCompte <ryanlecompte@apache.org>
>>>>>> * Haoyuan Li <haoyuan@apache.org>
>>>>>> * Sean McNamara <mcnamara@apache.org>
>>>>>> * Mridul Muralidharam <mridulm80@apache.org>
>>>>>> * Kay Ousterhout <kayousterhout@apache.org>
>>>>>> * Nick Pentreath <mlnick@apache.org>
>>>>>> * Imran Rashid <irashid@apache.org>
>>>>>> * Charles Reiss <woggle@apache.org>
>>>>>> * Josh Rosen <joshrosen@apache.org>
>>>>>> * Prashant Sharma <prashant@apache.org>
>>>>>> * Ram Sriharsha <harsha@apache.org>
>>>>>> * Shivaram Venkataraman <shivaram@apache.org>
>>>>>> * Patrick Wendell <pwendell@apache.org>
>>>>>> * Andrew Xia <xiajunluan@apache.org>
>>>>>> * Reynold Xin <rxin@apache.org>
>>>>>> * Matei Zaharia <matei@apache.org>
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that Matei Zaharia be
>>>>>> appointed to the office of Vice President, Apache Spark, to
>>>>>> serve in accordance with and subject to the direction of the
>>>>>> Board of Directors and the Bylaws of the Foundation until
>>>>>> death, resignation, retirement, removal or disqualification, or
>>>>>> until a successor is appointed; and be it further
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> RESOLVED, that the Apache Spark Project be and hereby is
>>>>>> tasked with the migration and rationalization of the Apache
>>>>>> Incubator Spark podling; and be it further
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> RESOLVED, that all responsibilities pertaining to the Apache
>>>>>> Incubator Spark podling encumbered upon the Apache Incubator
>>>>>> Project are hereafter discharged.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> ----
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Feb 8, 2014, at 9:02 AM, David Nalley <david@gnsa.us>
wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Ted and Henry: Thanks for the thoughtful replies and indulging
my
>>>>>>> concerns.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> +1 (binding)
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> --David
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 12:33 AM, Henry Saputra
>>>>>>> <henry.saputra@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> HI David Nalley,
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Thank you for your comment and concern, really appreciate
it.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> As Patrick had mentioned in his reply, this is not a persistent
>>>>>>>> problem.
>>>>>>>> The reminder I sent was about particular topic which could
be
>>>>>>>> interpreted as design or roadmap topic rather than review
for a
>>>>>>>> patch.
>>>>>>>> Rather than reminding an individual or two involved in the
>>>>>>>> discussion,
>>>>>>>> I decided to send email to dev@ list to show by example 
the open
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> transparent discussions the ASF way.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Hope this gives some more clarification about the state of
the
>>>>>>>> podling
>>>>>>>> embracing the ASF way.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> - Henry
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 9:19 PM, Patrick Wendell <pwendell@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Hey All - chiming in as an active Spark committer.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> The part that disturbs me is that after the vote
passed in the
>>>>>>>>>> community, and came to the IPMC a mentor is still
having to remind
>>>>>>>>>> folks that things like strategy and roadmap discussions
need to
>>>>>>>>>> happen
>>>>>>>>>> on the mailing list. That's a pretty foundational
concept in my
>>>>>>>>>> mind
>>>>>>>>>> for an Apache project.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Henry gave a reminder on the mailing list not because
it's a
>>>>>>>>> persistent problem but because it never explicitly came
up prior to
>>>>>>>>> this. We use github for review comments and in one case
this week
>>>>>>>>> there was a brief discussion that could be interpreted
as roadmap -
>>>>>>>>> so
>>>>>>>>> Henry just gave a reminder not to do that. I can't imagine
why any
>>>>>>>>> project would *want* to use github review comments for
long term
>>>>>>>>> roadmap discussion... it's a terrible medium for that
anyways! We
>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>> a very active developer list and that is where these
discussions
>>>>>>>>> take
>>>>>>>>> place.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> The missing account issues are somewhat troubling,
but also not
>>>>>>>>>> really
>>>>>>>>>> within the purview of the podling to fix either;
though I find it
>>>>>>>>>> odd
>>>>>>>>>> that people committed to the podling (and many initial
committers)
>>>>>>>>>> haven't asked for their Apache account or needed
to use it.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> This is because those people have still contributed a
lot of code
>>>>>>>>> via
>>>>>>>>> other commiters who merge so it's not an immediate urgency.
For
>>>>>>>>> perspective I am a committer on two other ASF projects
but I've
>>>>>>>>> never
>>>>>>>>> personally committed code to either - I do it through
the more
>>>>>>>>> active
>>>>>>>>> committers who basically spend all their time merging
patches. A
>>>>>>>>> few
>>>>>>>>> of the initial commiters are not currently active on
the project;
>>>>>>>>> they've made major contributions over the last few years
of
>>>>>>>>> development and are committers in recognition of those
>>>>>>>>> contributions
>>>>>>>>> (see above).
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Popping up a level. We are happy to have github discussions
forward
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> either our dev- list or a reviews- list or something
like that (I
>>>>>>>>> beleive Matei is setting that up now). If IPCM folks
want to debate
>>>>>>>>> whether we should *have* to do that, it seems sensible
to fork a
>>>>>>>>> thread and discuss elsewhere. If IPMC folks want to debate
whether
>>>>>>>>> github should be allowed at all, I also think it's better
discussed
>>>>>>>>> outside of this graduation thread.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>> -
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>>>>>>>> 
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>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
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