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From Steve Loughran <>
Subject Re: Hoya Proposal
Date Fri, 17 Jan 2014 12:13:13 GMT
On 17 January 2014 10:10, Bernd Fondermann <>wrote:

> Very informative explanation. I've got a better understanding of the
> proposal now.
> I suggest that a remark like this is added to the Hoya proposal, so this
> part of the discussion becomes part of the vote on the proposal.The
> proposal's "Known Risk" section lacks a "Relationships with Other Apache
> Products" paragraph, which would be a good place to add this information.
> There are more considerations missing that we have in other proposals. I'd
> suggest to add them, too, to complete the proposal.

I've added more on this

> All-in-all I'm currently -1 on the proposal as it is, but ready to change
> to +1 as this discussion reaches a consent.
Would you or anyone else like a Demo? I could do it online via google+ or

> (side note: When a project graduates, a PMC is established and tasked with
> a specific task. Two PMCs cannot have the same task. Therefore, it is
> better in my opinion to either clearly differentiate the projects from
> start, or join them from start.)
Really? Because while I am confident that hoya and twill are different, i
do note similarities between ant, maven and buildr, commons-logging, log4j
and avalon-logger,..

Of course, if you look at the history there they were launched
sequentially, and apache logging is now an uber-project for everything bar
avalon, whose sole appearance is in unexplained transitive artefact

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