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Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2013 15:39:58 +0000
Message-ID: 
 <CAJO+Ubvyt6sO-FL2xhJsOLhO+8py8PraYB73hODFUNCoXPqbpw@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Release Verification Checklist
From: ant elder <ant.elder@gmail.com>
To: "general@incubator.apache.org" <general@incubator.apache.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Well sorry but IMHO thats nonsense. The Maven decision was an isolated
incident and didn't change the way all future Incubator policy should
get decided. Insisting that this experiment is done via a change to
the main policy just makes it contentious when it doesn't need to be.
All the complexity in the language and approach, the three votes etc
is exactly why people get the idea that the ASF is a ridiculous place
with overbearing rules and process. Its just an experiment, use lazy
majority consensus and go try it with a podling.

   ...ant

On Fri, Dec 13, 2013 at 3:27 PM, Marvin Humphrey <marvin@rectangular.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Dec 13, 2013 at 12:18 AM, ant elder <ant.elder@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I'm also opposed to updating the policy document, so will be voting against
>> this just for that.  Its just an experiment so you don't need to be making a
>> permanent change to the policy page to try it, especially as its such a
>> clunky convoluted change.
>
> An explicit policy change is required because otherwise there would be
> ambiguity as to whether a release which passes under the modified regime is an
> act of the Foundation and confers indemnity on the Release Manager.
>
> The language of the proposed change to the Policy page has been carefully
> composed.  It is highly isolated from the rest of our policy and has no force
> except on the the experiment.
>
> This proposal is structured as an incremental, reversible change.  It is
> incremental because podlings must be opted in by vote of the IPMC to
> participate.  It is reversible because once the experiment has run its course
> the relevant section of the policy page can be removed with zero impact
> through lazy consensus.
>
>> (And responding to another related comment in the thread - since when have
>> policy updates not required consensus?)
>
> The 2008 proposal to allow distribution through Maven was enacted after a
> contentious majority-rule vote passed 15 to 12.
>
> Marvin Humphrey
>
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