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From ant elder <ant.el...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Populating the initial PPMC
Date Thu, 21 Nov 2013 08:33:45 GMT
On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 1:53 AM, Marvin Humphrey <marvin@rectangular.com>wrote:


> Still, this isn't the hill I want to die on.  I think that starting with an
> empty PPMC is good policy for a variety of reasons, but I'm willing to be
> flexible for the sake of building consensus on how to address the truly
> damaging dis-empowerment of PPMC members with regards to release votes.  If
> an empty initial PPMC is a deal breaker for you, does it's removal unblock
> your support for the rest of the proposal at <http://s.apache.org/atG>?
>
>

I think there are several problems with this approach.

One is that trying it for an already started podling _is_ disempowering.
You would have to go unsubscribe people from the private list and tell them
that they no longer have a voice in voting in new committers for their
project. That to me is just wrong.

Trying it for a new just starting up podling might work, which is why i
said previously try the experiment.  But i wouldn't like this to become a a
main stream approach. Remember what the main role of the PMC is - proposing
and voting for _and against_ new committers and PMC members. The point of
being able to veto PMC nominations is so you're not made to work with
someone you don't like or agree with. See the long post from Roy a while
ago about that.  Excluding podling participants from the PMC removes them
from those decisions.

This approach did happen a while ago to a podling, by accident not by
design when just them mentors ended up on the initial private list. They
voted in a new committer and announced it on the dev list, an argument
ensued where the others were surprised and angry about the choice, and the
result was everyone got added to the PPMC. Can't remember which, maybe
Cassandra if anyone wants to check the archives.

I think this is getting too hung up on vetting releases is the be all and
end all of PMC membership when really there are other just as if not more
important things. The way to teach new podling people about this is to
include them in the process while incubating, not exclude them.

   ...ant


I think this is getting to hung up on knowing how to make a release is the
be all and end all of PMC membership when thats jus

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