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From Marvin Humphrey <mar...@rectangular.com>
Subject Re: Release vote thresholds
Date Mon, 25 Nov 2013 04:31:59 GMT
On Sat, Nov 23, 2013 at 12:30 AM, ant elder <ant.elder@gmail.com> wrote:
> Do these sort of experiments really need consensus?

Ultimately, no.

Roy's message at <http://s.apache.org/yPX> indicates that the IPMC can set
policy as to how releases are approved.  We would do so by modifying this
section of our policy document:

    http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/Incubation_Policy.html#Releases

For a template of how a contentious majority rule vote might go, see the
following messages from Jukka Zitting during a 2008 VOTE and discussion thread
on Maven and incubating releases (which finally passed):

    http://markmail.org/message/wwivotswpkv4e6dg
    http://markmail.org/message/5w2636mcf3pienrb
    http://markmail.org/message/xoh6j5mvfhe245bg
    http://markmail.org/message/74xpzpy324zkzc3h
    http://markmail.org/message/lruet5xpubgzm5q4

I would rather not take us down that path yet.  Dave isn't just saying no,
he's offered an alternative.  Let's work with him for a bit.

It's generally desirable that we reach decisions by the process of consensus
because deciding by majority rule alienates the losing minority[1].  The
consensus process forces the majority to address the concerns of the minority,
hopefully resulting in a solution which everyone supports or at least can
accept.

However, the consensus process only fosters community cohesiveness when
negotiations eventually yield progress.  This flaw in the Incubator has been a
problem for years, a number of us think fixing it is really important, and
most everybody else seems ready to go along.  If in the end, I have to call a
majority rule vote and run it like Jukka did, that's what's going to happen.

> The Incubator PMC is so big and diverse now it makes getting consensus on
> some things all most impossible,

It's not the satellite members of the IPMC that make consensus hard to
achieve -- it's the core.  The IPMC would be just as prone to dysfunction if
it had 30 members instead of 180.

Marvin Humphrey

[1] http://www.crunchyroll.com/hunter-x-hunter/episode-10-trick-x-to-the-x-trick-585058?t=429
    (Warning: autoplay video and multiple ads before the content starts)

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