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From: Christian Grobmeier <grobmeier@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2013 13:16:20 +0200
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 <CAPFNckjVO=rfPE13JAuO+r5HBasL7W-7mmFdhAigjzZPBjcuFQ@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] Creation of the Incubator Ombudsman
To: "general@incubator.apache.org" <general@incubator.apache.org>
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On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 10:37 AM, Alan Cabrera <list@toolazydogs.com> wrote:
>
> On Jul 30, 2013, at 8:44 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz <bdelacretaz@apache.org> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 5:55 AM, Marvin Humphrey <marvin@rectangular.com> wrote:
>>> ...Bertrand was skeptical about an ASF-wide ombud, but didn't raise any objection
>>> to an Incubator-specific position.
>>>    http://s.apache.org/NAa
>> ...
>>
>> Just laziness on my part...what I said there also applies to an
>> Incubator ombudsman, I'll repeat it here: I don't think we need it -
>> people should feel
>> free to contact people that they trust (IPMC members, mentors, ASF
>> members) privately if there's a need, and not having someone elected
>> in the ombudsman role means people are free to talk to whoever *they*
>> think will help.
>
> An ombudsman is there when all the normal processes don't work.  It alleviates an organization from from having to heavily codify what to do in all manner of situations, thus keeping things simple.

Can you point me to any cases where "normal processes" didn't work
which can be fixed with the Ombud?
I know we have problems releasing packages. The Ombud will not make a
difference here.
I know we have problems overseeing projects. Shepherds have helped
here. Nothing to do for an Ombud.

What else can an Ombudsperson do instead of general@?


> I'll note that most of those who seem to think that the position is not needed are those who are well established and well connected in the ASF community.

I am still asking my questions on general@, and never in private.
And I have a lot of questions. It's true that I am know quite a few
folks at the ASF, but I ask incubator related questions at general@.
In fact, I consider asking questions in private problematic.

>
> I'll also mention a point I made a while back, sometimes it's better to have an ombudsman look into things rather than a random ASF member.

I am sorry if I missed an important message you already made, but
maybe you can point me to it. I didn't find it easily. I would like to
know what these things are.

Thanks!

Christian

PS: I appreciate this discussion even when I do not agree on the
necessity of the Ombudsperson (yet). The intention - making the
incubator a better place - is highly appreciated

>
>
> Regards,
> Alan
>
>
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