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From Christian Grobmeier <grobme...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: [PROPOSAL] Creation of the Incubator Ombudsman
Date Wed, 31 Jul 2013 11:09:31 GMT
On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 2:05 AM, Marvin Humphrey <marvin@rectangular.com> wrote:
> Bertrand, Christian, Alex,
>
> On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 12:44 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz
> <bdelacretaz@apache.org> wrote:
>> people should feel
>> free to contact people that they trust (IPMC members, mentors, ASF
>> members) privately if there's a need, and not having someone elected
>> in the ombudsman role means people are free to talk to whoever *they*
>> think will help.
>
> I question how well the Incubator communicates to newcomers that such
> resources are available to them.  What if a podling contributor has no "people
> that they trust" because they don't know anybody around here?
>
> I'm also skeptical that the absence of an ombud makes things easier
> because newcomers are "free" to find the best person to talk to.  That's like
> saying that an airport is better off without a help desk.

But there is a helpdesk. It's general@incubator.apache.org. Tons of
people are there.

I think we should tell people they can always seek help there.

I simply doubt that an appointed person who might go awol works better
than a whole list. And yes, I definitely know that general@ is not
always responsive as it should be. But why do we believe an
Ombudsperson is different?

> The difference between the Incubator's overview documentation (what we think
> you need to know) and the information in WhatToExpect (what you really need to
> know) is jarring.
>
>     http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/Process_Description.html
>     http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/WhatToExpect
>
> If we're so approachable, why doesn't anybody know it?

it's a good point to say nobody knows how to deal with issues. But how
exactly does the Ombud solve it? We need to create a new page telling
people: if in trouble, ask the Ombudsperson. What is different to: if
in trouble, ask at general@?

What I am trying to say: it seems we have a problem with our docs and
we should fix that first instead of inventing new roles. Fixing docs
turned out not to be easy at the incubator.

I have read the whole thread. Still i am not sure when to approach an
Ombudsperson. And what powers that person have to change the problems.
Even if the Ombud knows and addresses a problem, what else can he do
than pinging general@?

What I am trying to say is: what problems do we actually have which
need to be handled through a proxy? And how do we guarantee the Ombud
is responsive, unlike some mentors or general@?

Again, I will not object if you want to start this experiment.

Cheers
Christian

>
> Marvin Humphrey
>
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