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From: Ross Gardler <rgardler@opendirective.com>
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2013 22:44:04 +0100
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 <CAKQbXgB0akfA6y6fTDDQVuKZ78H5QM0bAwEEQ-iyAdAzK-4rpA@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Accept Stratos as an Apache Incubation Project
To: general@incubator.apache.org
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On 14 June 2013 17:19, Mattmann, Chris A (398J)
<chris.a.mattmann@jpl.nasa.gov> wrote:
> I'm putting my replies to this in a separate thread, and going to
> combine responses to Shane and Jim in it too since pTLP is not
> only related to accepting Stratos as an Apache Incubation project.

Good move.

I'll call the vote on the Stratos podling (i.e. not pTLP now)

Ross

>
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> Chris Mattmann, Ph.D.
> Senior Computer Scientist
> NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA
> Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246
> Email: chris.a.mattmann@nasa.gov
> WWW:  http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department
> University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ross Gardler <rgardler@opendirective.com>
> Reply-To: "general@incubator.apache.org" <general@incubator.apache.org>
> Date: Friday, June 14, 2013 8:38 AM
> To: "general@incubator.apache.org" <general@incubator.apache.org>
> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Accept Stratos as an Apache Incubation Project
>
>>On 14 June 2013 15:42, Mattmann, Chris A (398J)
>><chris.a.mattmann@jpl.nasa.gov> wrote:
>>> Those are "concerns/issues" with the Incubator. They aren't
>>> a proposal of what to do.
>> For concrete suggestions about how to address the issues in the wiki
>>take a look at the "solutions" section under each issue. All issue
>>have at least one suggestion, many have more.
>>
>>> * pTLP are nothing different than what existed before there was an
>>> Incubator.
>>
>>Sorry Chris, I disagree. It is *very* different. Where it isn't so
>>different is in cases where there are plenty of experienced and active
>>mentors (I believe Stratos is one such case which is why I proposed it
>>as a test case).
>>
>>> * This is an incremental step in the deconstruction proposal.
>>
>>Not for me it isn't. It's an incremental step towards finding the
>>merits in your proposal for a specific type of project. I have never
>>supported the deconstruction proposal and I trust people (including
>>the board when the IPMC makes its recommendations) are clear on this.
>>My championing of this proposal should not be seen as a championing of
>>the whole deconstruction idea.
>>
>>> Note, Ross was one of the most vocal discussers, seeing both the
>>> merit and potential pitfalls of my proposal. In short, if I've got
>>> Ross convinced enough to at least try it, then give it a chance.
>>
>>The only thing you have convinced me of is that there is no
>>opportunity to find the merits while this pTLP idea is wrapped up in
>>the larger deconstruction proposal.
>>
>>I made this clear in the initial proposal of the idea and I made it
>>clear in my response to Jim. I'm making it clear again here.
>>
>>I want to expose the merits and avoid the pitfalls of your larger
>>proposal. I am *not* adding my weight to your larger proposal. I am
>>merely moving past an incomplete wiki page with practical activity. I
>>will do the same with many of the other proposals that have merit
>>(e.g. Ant has started to build momentum behind his tooling
>>suggestions, |I hope to help there too).
>>
>>Ross
>>
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Chris
>>>
>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>> Chris Mattmann, Ph.D.
>>> Senior Computer Scientist
>>> NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA
>>> Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246
>>> Email: chris.a.mattmann@nasa.gov
>>> WWW:  http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/
>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>> Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department
>>> University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA
>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Ross Gardler <rgardler@opendirective.com>
>>> Reply-To: "general@incubator.apache.org" <general@incubator.apache.org>
>>> Date: Friday, June 14, 2013 6:48 AM
>>> To: "general@incubator.apache.org" <general@incubator.apache.org>
>>> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Accept Stratos as an Apache Incubation Project
>>>
>>>>On 14 June 2013 14:45, Jim Jagielski <jim@jagunet.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jun 14, 2013, at 9:31 AM, Ross Gardler <rgardler@opendirective.com>
>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks for your comments Jim.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You will see from the archives that I share most of your concerns
>>>>>> about probationary TLPs. However a number of IPMC members have argued
>>>>>> strongly for the concept.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> To be clear, the only info that seems "official" about pTLPs
>>>>> is the Wiki page proposal:
>>>>>
>>>>>     http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/IncubatorDeconstructionProposal
>>>>>
>>>>> IMO, it simply doesn't provide enough meat, details and rationale
>>>>> for me to be able to "commit" to it enough; there's a difference
>>>>> between the concept and the implementation of that concept.
>>>>
>>>>Agreed (and partially discussed elsewhere in this thread).
>>>>
>>>>Greg outlines a minimum he wants to see from the proposal to the
>>>>board. I agree with his minimum and will be looking to two supporters
>>>>of the pTLP concept to coordinate delivery of that minimum (I
>>>>discussed this with
>>>>both of them prior to make this suggestion, both agreed).
>>>>
>>>>Ross
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
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