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From "Mattmann, Chris A (398J)" <chris.a.mattm...@jpl.nasa.gov>
Subject Re: [DISCUSS] Accept Stratos as an Apache Incubation Project
Date Fri, 14 Jun 2013 16:19:14 GMT
I'm putting my replies to this in a separate thread, and going to
combine responses to Shane and Jim in it too since pTLP is not
only related to accepting Stratos as an Apache Incubation project.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Chris Mattmann, Ph.D.
Senior Computer Scientist
NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA
Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246
Email: chris.a.mattmann@nasa.gov
WWW:  http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department
University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++






-----Original Message-----
From: Ross Gardler <rgardler@opendirective.com>
Reply-To: "general@incubator.apache.org" <general@incubator.apache.org>
Date: Friday, June 14, 2013 8:38 AM
To: "general@incubator.apache.org" <general@incubator.apache.org>
Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Accept Stratos as an Apache Incubation Project

>On 14 June 2013 15:42, Mattmann, Chris A (398J)
><chris.a.mattmann@jpl.nasa.gov> wrote:
>> Those are "concerns/issues" with the Incubator. They aren't
>> a proposal of what to do.
> For concrete suggestions about how to address the issues in the wiki
>take a look at the "solutions" section under each issue. All issue
>have at least one suggestion, many have more.
>
>> * pTLP are nothing different than what existed before there was an
>> Incubator.
>
>Sorry Chris, I disagree. It is *very* different. Where it isn't so
>different is in cases where there are plenty of experienced and active
>mentors (I believe Stratos is one such case which is why I proposed it
>as a test case).
>
>> * This is an incremental step in the deconstruction proposal.
>
>Not for me it isn't. It's an incremental step towards finding the
>merits in your proposal for a specific type of project. I have never
>supported the deconstruction proposal and I trust people (including
>the board when the IPMC makes its recommendations) are clear on this.
>My championing of this proposal should not be seen as a championing of
>the whole deconstruction idea.
>
>> Note, Ross was one of the most vocal discussers, seeing both the
>> merit and potential pitfalls of my proposal. In short, if I've got
>> Ross convinced enough to at least try it, then give it a chance.
>
>The only thing you have convinced me of is that there is no
>opportunity to find the merits while this pTLP idea is wrapped up in
>the larger deconstruction proposal.
>
>I made this clear in the initial proposal of the idea and I made it
>clear in my response to Jim. I'm making it clear again here.
>
>I want to expose the merits and avoid the pitfalls of your larger
>proposal. I am *not* adding my weight to your larger proposal. I am
>merely moving past an incomplete wiki page with practical activity. I
>will do the same with many of the other proposals that have merit
>(e.g. Ant has started to build momentum behind his tooling
>suggestions, |I hope to help there too).
>
>Ross
>
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Chris
>>
>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>> Chris Mattmann, Ph.D.
>> Senior Computer Scientist
>> NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA
>> Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246
>> Email: chris.a.mattmann@nasa.gov
>> WWW:  http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/
>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>> Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department
>> University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA
>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Ross Gardler <rgardler@opendirective.com>
>> Reply-To: "general@incubator.apache.org" <general@incubator.apache.org>
>> Date: Friday, June 14, 2013 6:48 AM
>> To: "general@incubator.apache.org" <general@incubator.apache.org>
>> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Accept Stratos as an Apache Incubation Project
>>
>>>On 14 June 2013 14:45, Jim Jagielski <jim@jagunet.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On Jun 14, 2013, at 9:31 AM, Ross Gardler <rgardler@opendirective.com>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for your comments Jim.
>>>>>
>>>>> You will see from the archives that I share most of your concerns
>>>>> about probationary TLPs. However a number of IPMC members have argued
>>>>> strongly for the concept.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> To be clear, the only info that seems "official" about pTLPs
>>>> is the Wiki page proposal:
>>>>
>>>>     http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/IncubatorDeconstructionProposal
>>>>
>>>> IMO, it simply doesn't provide enough meat, details and rationale
>>>> for me to be able to "commit" to it enough; there's a difference
>>>> between the concept and the implementation of that concept.
>>>
>>>Agreed (and partially discussed elsewhere in this thread).
>>>
>>>Greg outlines a minimum he wants to see from the proposal to the
>>>board. I agree with his minimum and will be looking to two supporters
>>>of the pTLP concept to coordinate delivery of that minimum (I
>>>discussed this with
>>>both of them prior to make this suggestion, both agreed).
>>>
>>>Ross
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
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>
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