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From Joe Schaefer <joe_schae...@yahoo.com>
Subject Re: [PROPOSAL] Creation of the Incubator Ombudsman
Date Tue, 18 Jun 2013 22:53:29 GMT
It's easy for people to argue that we don't need it based
on the fact that nobody files formal complaints, but if you
think about it that's a self-fulfilling prophesy.  Unless
we try something different, we shouldn't expect anything to
change.

Your argument for a new list IS an argument for more bureaucracy.
Alan and I are simply asking for two things: a title and an alias
to go along with it.  That's it - no additional process, no new
oversight groups to participate in, no new powers to monitor.
Why so much reluctance to just honor the request such as it is
instead of looking for different ways of modifying it to taste?



----- Original Message -----
> From: Dave Fisher <dave2wave@comcast.net>
> To: general@incubator.apache.org
> Cc: 
> Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2013 6:45 PM
> Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] Creation of the Incubator Ombudsman
> 
> I think what we really should discuss is how the IPMC can help podlings in as 
> simple a way as possible.
> 
> I think we are looking for people in the IPMC who are willing to help podlings 
> solved their real and their perceived problems. An Ombudsman is one title for 
> someone like that  and so is Shepherd.
> 
> I think that there exists an ever changing group within the IPMC that in their 
> own serves this function. These people meet at private@.
> 
> Why can't a PPMC go to private@ with any issue and then someone can take 
> care of it?
> 
> If the complaint is that the group is too large and will debate it endlessly 
> then the solution would be to have a smaller group with their own list - make 
> these people Shepherd / Ombudsmen / Lieutenants / Watchdogs - let them lean in 
> on reports and respond to "situations" discretely. Let their report be 
> a private addition for the board report.
> 
> Regards,
> Dave
> 
> On Jun 18, 2013, at 3:22 PM, Joe Schaefer wrote:
> 
>>  Cmon folks, all we're looking for is an email alias and
>>  a descriptive title.  That's not *overhead* any more than
>>  Greg's novel position as Vice Chair is *overhead* to the
>>  board.  A title doesn't an officer make, there is no need
>>  to imbue Incubator Ombudsman with any power whatsoever,
>>  not even the power to compel people to take their work
>>  seriously.  I wish we could get to reasonable objections
>>  for this role instead of gut reactions about its perceived
>>  optics.
>> 
>> 
>>  ----- Original Message -----
>>>  From: Marvin Humphrey <marvin@rectangular.com>
>>>  To: general@incubator.apache.org
>>>  Cc: 
>>>  Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2013 6:13 PM
>>>  Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] Creation of the Incubator Ombudsman
>>> 
>>>  On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 9:14 PM, Mattmann, Chris A (398J)
>>>  <chris.a.mattmann@jpl.nasa.gov> wrote:
>>>>  I'm not in favor of an Ombudsman. Seems like an extra
>>>>  layer of overhead beyond what the Chair already provides. Seriously
>>>>  does someone need a title in order to be the clearinghouse for 
> folks'
>>>>  honest assessments of the Incubator, its personnel, or other 
> sensitive
>>>>  issues?
>>> 
>>>  We could really do a much better job of gathering feedback, both 
> solicited and
>>>  unsolicited.
>>> 
>>>  I'm sensitive to the argument against layering on bureaucracy and 
>>>  complexity.
>>>  As with public APIs, it is often more difficult to remove stuff later 
> than it
>>>  was to add it.
>>> 
>>>  Maybe we should focus first on the service of exit interviews, rather 
> than on
>>>  the creation of a new title?  We should be able to do a decent job
>>>  administering exit interviews with existing personnel.  The option to 
> expand
>>>  -- or not -- will always be available later, should the initiative 
> prove
>>>  successful.
>>> 
>>>  Marvin Humphrey
>>> 
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> 
> 
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