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Subject: Re: [META DISCUSS] talking about the overall state of this PMC
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From: Joseph Schaefer <joe_schaefer@yahoo.com>
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Date: Wed, 8 May 2013 01:00:01 -0400
To: "general@incubator.apache.org" <general@incubator.apache.org>
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You go girl! Spot on.

Sent from my iPhone

On May 8, 2013, at 12:54 AM, Alan Cabrera <list@toolazydogs.com> wrote:

>=20
> On May 7, 2013, at 4:03 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz <bdelacretaz@apache.org> w=
rote:
>=20
>> On Tue, May 7, 2013 at 5:45 AM, Alan Cabrera <list@toolazydogs.com> wrote=
:
>>> ...Let's get rid of champions and shepherds and hold the mentors to thei=
r responsibilities....
>>=20
>> The problem with mentors is when you have 5 of them it's unclear who's
>> in charge exactly.
>=20
> Why does someone need to be in charge?  The real problem is that we have f=
ive mentors four, or more, of which do not do the job to which they signed u=
p for.
>=20
> All we're doing is shuffling responsibilities around with the hopes that t=
he next person will be more responsible than the previous one.
>=20
>> The goal of the champion's role clarification was to have a single
>> point of contact and responsibility for contacts with the incubator
>> PMC - similar to a project's PMC chair role.
>>=20
>> So basically you have:
>>=20
>> A champion, who's a mentor, but also the primary point of contact with
>> the IPMC, makes sure reports are done in time and watches the podling
>> for lack of mentoring if that happens.
>>=20
>> Mentors, who are primarily tasked with coaching the podling.
>=20
> I'm hearing Benson's proposal accurately rephrased. =20
>=20
> We're pushing responsibilities which seemed "too much" for three or more m=
entors over to a single mentor and diluting the responsibilities into non-ac=
countable tasks such as coaching.
>=20
> What I'm worried about is that were merely shuffling responsibilities arou=
nd without really coming to a consensus as to what to do when volunteers don=
't do the job they signed up for.  Until we have an answer for that we'll co=
ntinuously have this conversation every other quarter as we shuffle responsi=
bilities around again.
>=20
> The myth that we seem to be holding dear is that we cannot hold volunteers=
 accountable for the tasks they signed up for.  Maybe if we did hold volunte=
ers accountable , they would take their responsibilities seriously and we wo=
uld have a clearer picture as to what kind of help to expect as we discuss t=
he IPMCs problems.
>=20
>=20
> Regards,
> Alan
>=20
>=20
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>=20

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