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Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2013 03:26:03 -0400
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Subject: Re: April report filed
From: Greg Stein <gstein@gmail.com>
To: general@incubator.apache.org
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On Sun, Apr 21, 2013 at 10:02 PM, Benson Margulies
<bimargulies@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, Apr 21, 2013 at 9:43 PM, Dave Fisher <dave2wave@comcast.net> wrote:
>...
>> It all seemed very rushed. Perhaps we need a clearer schedule in advance.
>
> A series of reminders go out via Marvin long in advance. And then, a few
> days before the board's deadline, I state the latest possible time for me
> to post it to svn to give people as much time as possible.

Right. The Board schedule is known. Marvin sends reminders.

What more do people need? "I'm responsible for my podling. Really, I
am. But I cannot do diddly shit unless Mommy and Daddy take care of
me, and tell me what to do."

Boo fucking hoo. Get it together. This isn't difficult. And most
podlings/PMCs only have to report once per quarter. If one person
takes it upon themselves, then you're talking about (say) one hour out
of TWO THOUSAND to write up a report. Then, you take 72 hours to pass
it by dev@ and see what they think.

One. Out of Two Thousand.

The Foundation isn't asking for much here. Just for a person to step
up. For 0.05% of their life.

(speaking as an ex-Chairman who had to deal with missing reports
continually; Marvin helped a great deal, but I'm still amazed at
people simply not stepping up and recognizing their responsibility;
life *does* get in the way sometimes, and reports *do* get missed, but
DO NOT blame the system -- take responsibility that you failed; I have
missed Apache Subversion reports, but I never blame others; it's all
on me; then I step up and report the following month)

> I wait until very late in the cycle to create commentary in the front so
> that (a) the rest of the community gets the first opportunity to create
> that content, and (b) it can reflect the content of the late-arriving
> podling reports.

Benson: you are the liaison. You are not responsible for everybody.
The PMC as a whole is responsible. And the podling communities are
responsible for their reporting.

>...
>> You seem to have abandoned shepherd appointments.

Blaming the system again. Remember: the shepherd concept is a
*band-aid* to help cover failing podlings/mentors. Blaming the
second-level solution is insanity.

>...
>> My real issue has nothing to do with whether changes were made before or
>> after and is more to do with my surprise that the board accepted such an
>> incomplete report.

We accept that failures occur. We accept that what *has* been provided
seems a reasonable reflection of the communities involved.

If the Incubator *regularly* provided substandard reports, or large
swaths of missing podling reports, *then* you can damned well believe
the Board would reject the report. And for such an important piece of
the Foundation, you can believe we'd take more serious action.

The Board is very cognizant of what goes on the Incubator, and the
untold details behind the reports. We knew this month's report was
substandard, and we gave it a little pass for various reasons. And
yes, we also talked a bit about how people are questioning the setup
of the Incubator.

If you want to know more about the Board's thoughts on reports, then
attend the meeting. Until you do, then "surprise" should not be in
your vocabulary.

>...
>> There was nothing much written about the state of various podlings.
>> Nothing was mentioned about podlings like ODF Toolkit's failure to report.
>
> I  could dig you out specific commentary from community members (I think
> including at least one current board member) to the effect that the best
> way to report that a podling didn't report was to simply have the report
> contain their lack of a report.

Right. We're well aware of missing reports. Calling them out is
helpful, but not mandatory.

>...

Cheers,
-g

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