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From Benson Margulies <>
Subject Re: No more existing-TLP graduations (was: [PROPOSAL] Curator for the Apache Incubator)
Date Wed, 27 Feb 2013 02:09:57 GMT
> 0. What does "bogged down" mean? Needs specific definition.


This is the point in the conversation where I hear the voice of Ross
calling me justly to account for wasting people's time by writing too
quickly. So I will try to atone by clarification.

I think that we are all starting from the observation that umbrellas
are no more, and so we never, ever, should be planning on a

>From that starting point I see two topics of conversation here.

Topic 1: Should the IPMC have a role in a planned process in which an
existing TLP absorbs an external community? On other words, should we
ever accept a podling with the _intention_ that it will graduate by
absorption into an existing TLP?

You and Greg are strongly opposed to this. I'm +0. Which means that I
see no harm in accepting this Curator process now, and continuing

Topic 2: What should the incubator flow chart have to say about
'stalled' podlings?

So, let me define the terms of this discussion as I see them. We do
not want to see podlings that malinger in the incubator indefinitely.
If a podling is too small to be a viable TLP, and has little prospect
of growth, we want to see some sort of exit. Obviously, retirement is
an option. The argument, if any, is about a retirement alternative of
'absorption by another TLP.' We've been known to send email to
podlings suggesting that they shop around for this possibility.

I suggest that this option is _formally_ equivalent to the following
three steps:

a: the podling retires (source RO, issues RO, mailing lists RO)
b: a TLP does 'svn cp' to absorb the source code
c: a TLP, sooner or later, votes to grant members of the defunct
podling committer status

So, the question is: are we helping anyone or anything by describing
this as a normative part of the process, albeit probably a rare one?

So, now that I've written all this, I find myself, again, +0. If any
combo of the board and my fellow PMC members prefer to represent the
flow as a simple choice between graduation and retirement, and manage
this as per my steps above, that's really OK with me.

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