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From David Crossley <cross...@apache.org>
Subject Re: More and better report nagging
Date Tue, 18 Dec 2012 09:04:12 GMT
Tim Williams wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 17, 2012 at 7:48 PM, Benson Margulies <bimargulies@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Mon, Dec 17, 2012 at 7:35 PM, Marvin Humphrey <marvin@rectangular.com>
wrote:
> >> On Mon, Dec 17, 2012 at 4:04 PM, Tim Williams <williamstw@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> FWIW, I feel the same.  I'd rather see 'did not report' and let the
> >>> IPMC look for that pattern. Maybe just have your template generator
> >>> default to DNR in the text?
> >>
> >> +1 on defaulting to DNR.
> >>
> >> How about sending out the whole Incubator report to all podling dev lists,
> >> every month?  That way the DNR shows up without an IPMC member having to
> >> notice and take action.  But in addition, it increases podling exposure to
> >> other projects and to the ASF at large.
> >>
> >> An alternative is to send it out to only the podlings that are reporting for
a
> >> cycle, but that's more work and doesn't serve the purpose of connecting the
> >> podling to being in the Incubator quite so cleanly.
> >
> >
> > I feel  all that we are all volunteers, that podlings are volunteers
> > who don't necessarily have their organizational act together, and that
> > calling them out for DNR is not a very effective technique to
> > providing the supervision that we, as a PMC, are on the hook for.  So
> > I'm inclined for now to nag, and to spend a few minutes making that
> > job less labor-intensive.
> 
> I'm beginning to think your mind's made up and the original question
> was a pleasantry, but in case not...
> 
> I hold a different view of things.  While I think that we, ok you, are
> on the hook for a board report, we've (PMC) delegated[1] the reporting
> of each podling to the mentors that we approved for that podling.  We
> aren't "calling out the podling" as DNR - we're calling out their
> mentor as DNR.  If there's additional nags to go out, I'd do my
> "default to DNR" and send the nag to the mentors directly.
> 
> Ultimately, making that job less labor-intensive involves getting
> mentors and would-be-mentors to realize they can't simply go around
> spewing their seeds as absentee fathers - it's a real commitment; to
> the podling and to the foundation.  Shucks, keeping a record of
> deadbeat mentors would prolly help...
> 
> In the end though, you've a thankless and tough job, so consider these
> as constructive thoughts to be readily ignored in favor of whatever it
> takes to get your job done:)
> 
> Thanks,
> --tim
> 
> [1] - http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/Roles_and_Responsibilities.html#Mentor

Things should be in their hands as much as possible.

In my opinion each podling group of developers should be
ensuring that their board report is ready, with the mentors
just mentoring and making sure that actual status does get
reported.

I wonder if we could utilise the podling metadata system
at content/podlings.xml
to get a podling PPMC member or a mentor to set an attribute
to mark that the report is received. Put the PPMC in the loop.

This gets them used to overseeing their own project, being
self-reliant, and maintaining their own records.

Another benefit of editing that file is that they see when
their next report is due and whether their metadata needs
to be updated.

Any nag to them could encourage them to visit that file.

-David

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