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From "Mattmann, Chris A (388J)" <>
Subject Re: Sub-projects - when are they acceptable? (was Re: [VOTE] Graduate Nuvem as a sub-project under Apache Tuscany)
Date Tue, 20 Nov 2012 14:47:03 GMT
Fromt he peanut gallery of someone who has participated in a number of sub-projects
over the years (Nutch, Tika, Solr, Hadoop, etc.): I don't think they have a big place at the
ASF. The word "project" implies "community". Sub communities == umbrella projects == 
pain, and suffering.

OTOH, sub-"products", or the ability for a PMC to release multiple "products", like e.g.,

like Lucene does now (Lucene-Java is a product; Solr is a product; PyLucene is a product),
that works b/c the sets of individuals that make up those interested in the sub "products"
not separate communities, they just release different portions of the software that they scratch

their itch on.

My 2c.


On Nov 20, 2012, at 3:28 AM, Ross Gardler wrote:

> On 20 November 2012 11:18, Benson Margulies <> wrote:
>> On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 3:01 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz
>> <> wrote:
>>> On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 6:41 AM, Luciano Resende <>
>>>> ...Nuvem has a great synergy with Apache Tuscany, and after
>>>> discussion between the two projects, we are seeking IPMC approval to allow
>>>> graduation of Apache Nuvem as a sub-project under Apache Tuscany....
>>> Can you clarify what this means? Do all members of the Nuvem PPMC
>>> become Tuscany PMC members?
>> Bertrand, this is a great opportunity to clarify the board's attitude
>> toward 'subprojects'. Ever since the campaign to dismantle umbrellas,
>> I've been confused about what structures the board would find
>> reasonable.
> I don't speak for the board, but my opinion is that if a sub-project
> is OK as long as it is actively managed by the same PMC as the parent
> project.
> Where I start to get worried is when a sub-project takes on a life of
> its own and significant portions of the parent PMC are not interested
> in the sub-project and thus fail to provide appropriate oversight. The
> more sub-projects there are in a project the more likely this is to
> happen.
> I'm interested to hear if this is also the opinion of others and thus
> I've changed the subject. In terms of Nuvem I'm interested in the
> answer to Bertrands question.
> Ross
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