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From Benson Margulies <bimargul...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: [VOTE] Retire Chukwa from incubation
Date Tue, 27 Nov 2012 15:10:01 GMT
Alan,

I get that. I'm supposed to be more the admin support here than the
autocrat. I'm trying to help the IPMC find a consensus position --
within the parameters of the IPMC's mission. I have no problem with
that position being retirement. I am prepared for it to be a brief
extension, and I am completely opposed to six months of carte blanche.

--benson


On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 9:43 AM, Alan Cabrera <list@toolazydogs.com> wrote:
> Benson,
>
> I will remind the IPMC that seven months ago the specter of retirement was raised.  A
lengthy discussion ensued.  Consensus was garnered.  We even added committers with the hopes
of infusing new energy into the project.
>
> Sometimes, you just can't get ultimate consensus on retirement and you have to resolve
issues with a vote.  By *all* of the PPMC members admission, they have no time to work on
this project.  Eric simply wanted to wait a while and hope for some miracle to happen.
>
> If Eric and other PPMC members had the time to do the work, we wouldn't be where we are
today.
>
>
>
> Regards,
> Alan
>
> On Nov 27, 2012, at 3:48 AM, Benson Margulies wrote:
>
>> One interesting point about consensus decision-making process is the
>> need to define the starting point. The process assumes that there is a
>> clear 'status quo', and that a consensus is required to change it.
>> This may not always be the appropriate way to think about retiring a
>> podling, but it's clearly the way we're thinking about this one.
>>
>> Does anyone else feel that this could have benefitted from a [DISCUSS]
>> before the [VOTE].
>>
>> At the bottom line, if there are new mentors to be fully responsible,
>> I think it's reasonable to continue; however, I don't want to have
>> exactly the same conversation in N months. Would the new mentors like
>> to propose a time limit, and is the group willing to subscribe to the
>> notion that, if after that time, the new mentors have the same report
>> as the old mentors, we're at the end?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 3:23 AM, Bernd Fondermann
>> <bernd.fondermann@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 8:55 AM, ant elder <ant.elder@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> I'd hope we can demonstrate finding consensus rather than using the vote
to
>>>> resolve this.
>>>>
>>>> I still think forced retirement doesn't seem the right thing in this case
>>>> so my -1 stands. In the other thread Alan now seems open to giving them
>>>> another try, i've offered to help with that (any other offers of help?),
>>>> what have we got to lose with trying that?
>>>
>>> "forced"? No, not really. Chukwa reported low activity and discussions
>>> about closing down for months to the IPMC.
>>>
>>> Only because the IPMC as a whole is getting involved only *now*
>>> doesn't make it more likely for the project to change.
>>>
>>> However, if the IPMC reaches consensus to continue Chukwa, I'm in.
>>> What will happen is that attention falls back to chukwa-dev and we're
>>> where we were one week ago.
>>>
>>> But again, I'm ready to continue.
>>>
>>>  Bernd
>>>
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