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Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2012 07:46:06 -0700 (PDT)
From: Joe Schaefer <joe_schaefer@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: Joe Schaefer <joe_schaefer@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [VOTE] Apache OpenOffice Community Graduation Vote
To: "general@incubator.apache.org" <general@incubator.apache.org>
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The point most people seem to make out of "sanctioned"=0Aor "official" buil=
ds revolves around indemnifying volunteers=0Ainvolved in the production of =
the release.=0A=0A=0AI'm tired of rehashing release.html for the umpteenth =
time=0Asimply because Brane or you or some other newb lacks the=0Aexperienc=
e to know the context behind the document, but=0Aas they say patches welcom=
e (on site-dev@apache.org).=C2=A0 Every=0Acommitter can alter the wording o=
n that page and do something=0Amore productive than make clueless arguments=
 on this=0Aever devolving thread.=0A=0A=0AAOO is mentored by some of the mo=
st experienced people in the org,=0Aplease just ignore any further chaff fr=
om this thread and pay attention=0Ato the guidance you have been repeatedly=
 given on this issue.=0AAOO doesn't need to change anything to their curren=
t release processes=0Aother than to stop pointing source downloads at svn (=
which is the sole=0Areason I won't vote for AOO candidates).=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=
----- Original Message -----=0A> From: Rob Weir <robweir@apache.org>=0A> To=
: general@incubator.apache.org=0A> Cc: =0A> Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2012 9=
:54 AM=0A> Subject: Re: [VOTE] Apache OpenOffice Community Graduation Vote=
=0A> =0A> On Sun, Aug 26, 2012 at 7:26 AM, Branko =C4=8Cibej <brane@apache.=
org> wrote:=0A>>  On 26.08.2012 13:15, Tim Williams wrote:=0A>>>  Marvin ga=
ve the link earlier in this thread. 4th para is the relevant =0A> bit.=0A>>=
> =0A>>>  http://www.apache.org/dev/release.html#what=0A>> =0A>>  The relev=
ant part is in the last paragraph. However, that says=0A>>  "convenience" a=
nd defines version numbering requirements, but it =0A> does=0A>>  /not/ sta=
te that the binaries are not sanctioned by the ASF and are not=0A>>  part o=
f the official ASF release.=0A>> =0A> =0A> And again, as I and others have =
stated, this is merely a label with no=0A> content to it.=C2=A0 What does "=
sanctioned (or not sanctioned) by the ASF=0A> mean"?=C2=A0 Anything specifi=
c?=0A> =0A> Remember, the binaries (or "Object form" in the words of the li=
cense)=0A> are also covered by the Apache License 2.0, and sections 7 and 8=
 of=0A> that license already say that it is provided as-is, and disclaims=
=0A> warranty and liability.=0A> =0A> In other words, the same license and =
the same disclaimers apply to=0A> source (which we seem to agree is part of=
 the ASF release) and to=0A> binaries.=0A> =0A> So again I urge the IPMC to=
 mind the seductive appeal of mere labeling=0A> and instead consider whethe=
r there is any actual constraints on=0A> activities and behavior for Podlin=
gs (or TLP's for that matter) based=0A> on whether something is a source or=
 binary, e.g.:=0A> =0A> 1) Is there some required (or forbidden) way in whi=
ch a distinction=0A> must be acknowledged in a release vote?=0A> =0A> 2) Is=
 there some required (or forbidden) language on the download webpage?=0A> =
=0A> 3) Any required (or forbidden) language on release announcements?=0A> =
=0A> 4) Is there some required (or forbidden) constraint with distribution?=
=0A> =0A> So far I have heard some on this list suggest the AOO podling is =
doing=0A> something incorrect, something against ASF policy.=C2=A0 But disp=
ute=0A> repeated queries, no one has stated what exactly this is.=C2=A0 Thi=
s is=0A> extremely unfair to the podling, to any podling.=C2=A0 It denies u=
s the=0A> opportunity of addressing issues.=C2=A0 Is this really how the IP=
MC=0A> operates?=C2=A0 It reminds me of tactics practiced by Microsoft agai=
nst=0A> open source -- intimate that something is wrong, but never offer=0A=
> specifics.=C2=A0 We call it FUD there.=C2=A0 What do we call it at the AS=
F?=0A> =0A>>  It would be very useful if that paragraph were amended to say=
 so=0A>>  explicitly. I've had no end of trouble trying to explain to manag=
ers =0A> and=0A>>  customers that any binaries that come from the ASF are n=
ot =0A> "official".=0A> =0A> That may be true for your users, but for mine =
they would just come=0A> back with, "What does that mean in practice?"=0A> =
=0A>>  Regardless of the policy stated numerous times in this thread and on=
=0A>>  this list, this is not clear anywhere in the bylaws or other online=
=0A>>  documentation (that I can find).=0A>> =0A> =0A> I agree.=0A> =0A>>  =
-- Brane=0A>> =0A>>  P.S.: I asked this same question on legal-discuss a we=
ek ago. My post=0A>>  has not even been moderated through as of today, so r=
eferring people to=0A>>  that list doesn't appear to be too helpful.=0A>> =
=0A>> =0A>>  --------------------------------------------------------------=
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