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From Jun Rao <jun...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: [VOTE] Release Kafka 0.7.1-incubating (Candidate 2)
Date Fri, 22 Jun 2012 00:29:04 GMT
Kevan,

I agree that to the benefit of users, it would be reasonable for Apache
projects to include license/notice for all dependant jars (directly or
indirectly) in a release. However, this has to be done automatically by
tools, not manually by human beings. IMO, without such tools, it's unfair
(and error prone) to make this a requirement for all Apache projects.

Thanks,

Jun

On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 12:35 PM, Kevan Miller <kevan.miller@gmail.com>wrote:

>
> On Jun 21, 2012, at 1:50 PM, Marvin Humphrey wrote:
>
> > On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 6:15 AM, Kevan Miller <kevan.miller@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >> On Jun 21, 2012, at 1:20 AM, Alan D. Cabrera wrote:
> >
> >>> With that said, I think it's something good and extremely useful to
> strive
> >>> for.  The lack of it, i.e. extensive documentation in LICENSE/NOTICE
> with
> >>> regards to transitive dependencies, is not a showstopper IMO unless
> there
> >>> are explicit rules prohibiting it on the ASF rules.
> >>
> >> I don't have a chapter and verse to quote you. I'll work on
> getting/creating
> >> some clarification. I may not be able to start on that for the next few
> >> days...
> >
> > I feel like I'm missing something.  There shouldn't be any difference
> between
> > a first-order dependency and a transitive dependency.  All that matters
> is
> > whether or not the dependency is bundled, right?[1]  Why would we need
> ASF
> > rules regarding *transitive* dependency license documentation in
> particular?
>
> Because Alan and I disagreed and nobody else had commented? ;-)
>
> >
> > So long as we bundle the bits, we have to bundle the licensing --
> possibly
> > bubbling up any relevant ALv2 NOTICE provisions into the top-level NOTICE
> > since that's what the ALv2 requires.  On the other hand, if the bits
> aren't
> > bundled, then the licensing shouldn't be bundled either.
> >
> > If the bundled dependencies of the canonical ASF source release and a
> > convenience binary differ, then their licensing must be analyzed
> separately
> > and may differ.
> >
> > If a project has a gazillion dependencies, regardless of whether those
> > dependencies are direct or transitive, that makes dealing with licensing
> more
> > challenging, but it doesn't change our legal obligations.
>
> I think you and I agree. Though there may be some ambiguities in what we
> mean by direct or transitive dependencies. So, attempting to clarify:
>
> I think Alan's (Kafka's) position is that dependencies don't matter since
> they are not distributing binary artifacts.
>
> I would agree with Alan, if Kafka source was simply intended to be used in
> source form. That's not the case. The Kafka project is designed to be
> built/compiled into a distribution. So, IMO, Kafka must document their
> dependencies. Note that if Kafka only had compile-time/test-time
> dependencies and simply built .jar files (and someone else was responsible
> for bundling everything together into a "distribution"), then I'd have a
> different opinion.
>
> In this case, the Kafka source release contains AL v2 licensed source code
> along with some binary artifacts under several licenses (you're welcome to
> comment on this, also). The Kafka LICENSE/NOTICE files only contain the
> licenses for this source code and the binary artifacts contained within the
> source release. They don't document the dependencies that they will bundle
> into a distribution.
>
> --kevan
>
> >
> > Marvin Humphrey
> >
> > [1] Leaving aside concerns about copyleft, field of use restrictions,
> etc.
> >
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>
>
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