From general-return-35942-apmail-incubator-general-archive=incubator.apache.org@incubator.apache.org Fri May 25 15:38:23 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: apmail-incubator-general-archive@www.apache.org Delivered-To: apmail-incubator-general-archive@www.apache.org Received: from mail.apache.org (hermes.apache.org [140.211.11.3]) by minotaur.apache.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 71A95C97C for ; Fri, 25 May 2012 15:38:23 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 90703 invoked by uid 500); 25 May 2012 15:38:22 -0000 Delivered-To: apmail-incubator-general-archive@incubator.apache.org Received: (qmail 90379 invoked by uid 500); 25 May 2012 15:38:22 -0000 Mailing-List: contact general-help@incubator.apache.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Post: List-Id: Reply-To: general@incubator.apache.org Delivered-To: mailing list general@incubator.apache.org Received: (qmail 90371 invoked by uid 99); 25 May 2012 15:38:22 -0000 Received: from nike.apache.org (HELO nike.apache.org) (192.87.106.230) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Fri, 25 May 2012 15:38:22 +0000 X-ASF-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.7 required=5.0 tests=RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW,SPF_PASS X-Spam-Check-By: apache.org Received-SPF: pass (nike.apache.org: domain of bimargulies@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.175 as permitted sender) Received: from [209.85.214.175] (HELO mail-ob0-f175.google.com) (209.85.214.175) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Fri, 25 May 2012 15:38:15 +0000 Received: by obhx4 with SMTP id x4so1545351obh.6 for ; Fri, 25 May 2012 08:37:54 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=xexo8B4kwGLxkFssqWyAzLFkzNEN1LqNeYXPUaxzwrU=; b=e0uRfJuEW22uQUXKm/wee0zoFYsF+pqWemQed6i6H5ydUiecoy+IegfhDepfNuhWdC ENj5EzFsducLbgsij4q98HUqYb/oSq6swkXPdRBaHdsrL5KzAv4cCQUb/nlRj3oOLsX1 pS7SZpuLHSEH60XB6HPlBMU4Rk7VSVhoApAmr/l6DS4NfI4VbSEaIEHIfLNZ1PN7GRSC iSkU4pVnEJ3e2LpT70c50Qlh6YSuqHuWCCHz7Urox5pa0Uo3h6RUUhAUgBH7FYS9NnHJ 5JPNM722CpxeI9Crv0NMVtpdhBVkVWIaR4h4d2T+HNWfTNufeGPhizqMOEGEJX4RctYl lRtA== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.182.14.104 with SMTP id o8mr339210obc.6.1337960274045; Fri, 25 May 2012 08:37:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.182.78.41 with HTTP; Fri, 25 May 2012 08:37:54 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 25 May 2012 08:37:54 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: JIRA and communities From: Benson Margulies To: general@incubator.apache.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On Fri, May 25, 2012 at 12:53 AM, Steve Loughran wrote: > On 24 May 2012 06:15, Benson Margulies wrote: > >> I've met other groups of people who like a JIRA centric view >> of the world. I suspect that if they did a bunch of other good things >> called out below, you or others would find the JIRA business >> digestible. Also, on the other hand, I fear that the co-employed >> contributors are collaborating in the hallway, and the lack of the >> context in JIRA or on the list is contributing to the problem. >> >> > I'm not convinced that JIRA helps communities. It's great in companies -IDE > integration, you can bounce issues to others, it pings your phone so often > you can use it as a network liveness test. It also lets you persist > discussions in a way that can be searched. In a busy project, it helps you > keep track of your workload, and can assist in sprint planning if you fill > in the est/actual workload fields. I don't claim that JIRA helps, but I also don't accept the proposition that JIRA hurts. I think that we should focus on the community, not the tools. The JIRA-oriented projects I follow have JIRA set to send all new issues, and all new comments, to the dev list. So all community members, and, in particular, all PMC members with a duty to supervise, see all the traffic. Meanwhile, some projects, with or without JIRA, just creep along making small, incremental, changes and bugfixes. There's no grand strategy or vision, and, as a result, not much to talk about most of the time. Bugs and requests come in and people deal with them -- or not. So, I won't claim that your disfunction scenario is impossible or never observed at the ASF. I will point out that bugzilla could be used just as effectively to create the same problem. As a mentor, what I care about is what happens when a new person shows up. Does the dev list manage to welcome and encourage that person? Or does that person find a mysterious, opaque situation in which there seems to be a secret code that has to be broken to get a contribution accepted? If welcome and encouragement amounts to 'go find a JIRA and get busy,' that does not bother me, so long it leads to the happy result of applied patches and eventual karma. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org