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From Benson Margulies <bimargul...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Flume Graduation (was Re: June reports in two weeks)
Date Tue, 29 May 2012 14:02:55 GMT
On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 7:13 AM, Shane Curcuru <asf@shanecurcuru.org> wrote:
> Doesn't the IPMC (and not any individuals, even Roy) decide what the
> official Incubation policies should be?  Ralph's reply, and my general
> reading of the feeling in the IPMC is that graduation votes *should* take
> affiliation diversity into account.

Well, there's room for disagreement about the diversity requirement.
That's why we have votes. Not that we *have* a diversity requirement,
but rather how the situation at hand does or does not meet it.

>
> Note that some could argue Flume technically meets the diversity criteria,
> however I really like Jukka's analysis of who's actually making the commits
> - which means they may not necessarily meet the diversity criteria in spirit
> yet.
>
> - Shane
>
> P.S. For our public readers, note that Roy's emails are always worth
> reading.
>
> On 2012-05-27 5:17 AM, Ralph Goers wrote:
>>
>>
>> Roy, What you are saying directly contradicts
>> http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#community,
>> especially the statement "Basically this means that when a project
>> mostly consists of contributors from one company, this is a sign of
>> not being diverse enough".  Now, if that page is wrong and diversity
>> is not a requirement for graduation then, of course, that would
>> certainly remove any objections I have for Flume's graduation.
>> However, I've heard it said that the ASF does not want to simply
>> provide the infrastructure for companies to host their products on.
>>
>> Ralph
>>
>>
>> On May 27, 2012, at 1:35 AM, Roy T. Fielding wrote:
>>
>>> There is no diversity requirement for graduating from the
>>> incubator. In many ways, incubation hinders community growth. The
>>> requirement is that the project makes decisions as an Apache
>>> project, not in private, which is harder to get used to doing if a
>>> lot of people share the same office.
>>>
>>> Diversity is only a warning sign that means we need to check for
>>> decisions made in our forums and advise accordingly. It is not an
>>> end in itself, nor has lack of diversity hindered other projects
>>> from continuing on to build a larger community as a TLP.
>>>
>>> ....Roy
>>>
>>>
>>> On May 26, 2012, at 11:44 PM, Ralph
>>> Goers<ralph.goers@dslextreme.com>  wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> On May 26, 2012, at 9:29 PM, Arvind Prabhakar wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Jukka,
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, May 26, 2012 at 4:43 PM, Jukka
>>>>> Zitting<jukka.zitting@gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> IIUC Flume operates under an RTC model where people are not
>>>>>> supposed to commit their own changes, which obviously makes
>>>>>> the above data less relevant for evaluating the true
>>>>>> diversity of the community. However, seeing only a single
>>>>>> trivial commit by both jarcec and juhanic even though they
>>>>>> became committers already over three months ago does seem to
>>>>>> suggest that they may not be as comfortable in their
>>>>>> committer role as people from Cloudera are.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> As you noted in your comments above - the Flume project tends
>>>>> to follow RTC with the reviewer committing the code. I happen
>>>>> to have taken up the role of the reviewer for the most part and
>>>>> hence you see the skewed commit counts. If you want to see the
>>>>> actual contribution, I would suggest looking at fixed JIRA
>>>>> issues by assignees. A quick report yields the following:
>>>>>
>>>>> aprabhkar - 26 - Cloudera [6] brocknoland - 19 - Cloudera [7]
>>>>> esammer - 56 - Cloudera [8] hshreedharan - 34 - Cloudera [9]
>>>>> jarcec - 6 - AVG Technologies [10] jmhsieh - 8 - Cloudera [11]
>>>>> juhanic - 9 - CyberAgent [12] mpercy - 34 - Cloudera [13]
>>>>> mlai@apache.org - 1 - Trend Micro [14] prasadm - 34 - Cloudera
>>>>> [15] tom@cloudera.com - 3 - Cloudera [16] will@cloudera.com - 3
>>>>> - Cloudera [17]
>>>>>
>>>>> Looking at this, the average number of issues resolved by
>>>>> Cloudera committers (not counting Tom who is a mentor) is 26,
>>>>> and that for non-Cloudera committers is 5. Note that this
>>>>> number does not include other committer work such as the number
>>>>> of code reviews they have done, the number of design
>>>>> discussions they have participated in, something that is very
>>>>> valuable to the project.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Another way of  looking at these same statistics: Cloudera - 217
>>>> Other - 16
>>>>
>>>> That means Cloudera is responsible for over 93% of the Jira
>>>> issues.  It is great that Cloudera is doing so much work but
>>>> those stats hardly prove diversity.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ralph
>>>>
>>>>
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>>
>>
>
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