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From Dave Fisher <dave2w...@comcast.net>
Subject Re: Flume Graduation (was Re: June reports in two weeks)
Date Thu, 24 May 2012 19:06:22 GMT

On May 24, 2012, at 11:49 AM, Ralph Goers wrote:

> 
> On May 24, 2012, at 10:40 AM, Arvind Prabhakar wrote:
> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> On Thu, May 24, 2012 at 12:19 AM, Ralph Goers <ralph.goers@dslextreme.com>wrote:
>> 
>>> The ONLY issue I see for Flume to graduate is diversity.  No one will
>>> convince me that the current makeup constitutes diversity of any kind.
>>> 
>>> Perhaps I shouldn't have brought up the mailing list issues as that was
>>> only meant in the spirit of trying to offer some advice on how more
>>> diversity could be achieved.  Flume is really the only community I
>>> participate in that contains Cloudera employees so I do find myself
>>> wondering if the way the project is run is because that is the way all
>>> projects with a large number of Cloudera employees are run.  That might
>>> make all of those participants comfortable but might create a barrier to
>>> others.
>>> 
>> 
>> Here are the committers who have been active in the past three months:
>> 
>> * Brock Noland (Cloudera)
>> * Hari Shreedharan  (Cloudera)
>> * Jarek Jarcec Cecho (AVG Technologies)
>> * Juhani Connolly   (CyberAgent)
>> * Mike Percy (Cloudera)
>> * Mingjie Lai (Trend Micro)
>> * Prasad Mujumdar (Cloudera)
>> * Will McQueen (Cloudera)
>> * Arvind Prabhakar (Cloudera)
>> 
>> There are four companies represented in this list: AVG Technologies,
>> Cloudera, CyberAgent and Trend Micro. Compared to other projects that have
>> successfully graduated from Incubator in the past, this meets the diversity
>> requirements very well.
> 
> I was mistaken and the list above is indeed correct.  For some reason I thought a couple
of them had become Cloudera employees.  
> 
> However, none of those three are currently on the PPMC.  When you look at the PPMC list
you should also include a few more Cloudera people who do participate in release votes and
PPMC issues. Most, if not all, of the non-Cloudera PMC members don't.

I started reading some of the Flume website and I think that when you go to the main Wiki
page:

https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/FLUME/Index

When you click on the "Flume Cookbook" the resource is at cloudera.org.

http://archive.cloudera.com/cdh/3/flume/Cookbook/

This page lists "flume-dev@cloudera.org" and is a file with a revision dated May 7, 2012.

You can make you own conclusions, but it looks like podling resources need to be migrated
to the ASF.

Regards,
Dave

> 
> 
> 
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>> In any case - I'm not insisting that the way the project is run needs to
>>> change. I'm simply saying I cannot support graduation with the current
>>> makeup of the committers and PMC. I don't have a hard and fast ratio -
>>> gaining 10 new unaffiliated committers who don't do much isn't nearly as
>>> good as 2 or 3 who are very active.  Ultimately the project needs to figure
>>> out how to solve this.
>>> 
>> 
>> Stating that some committers "who don't do much isn't nearly as good as 2
>> or 3 who are very active" is an unfair characterization. This is more
>> unfair for those who are part of the project but have not been active
>> lately due to whatever reasons, but have played a foundational role in
>> getting the project to a point where it is today. I think they are as
>> important as any other committer who may be very active at the moment.
>> Merit once earned, never expires [1].
>> 
>> [1] http://www.apache.org/dev/committers.html#committer-set-term
> 
> I think you misunderstood my point or I didn't state it very well.  Diversity isn't achieved
simply by having bodies.  IOW I am not suggesting offering commit rights to people who haven't
earned it just to meet some ratio.  However, I am not suggesting the project has ever even
considered doing that.
> 
> Ralph 
> 
> 
> 
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