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From Alex Karasulu <akaras...@apache.org>
Subject Re: [VOTE] Graduate Sqoop podling from Apache Incubator
Date Wed, 29 Feb 2012 13:39:36 GMT
On Wed, Feb 29, 2012 at 3:07 PM, Alex Karasulu <akarasulu@apache.org> wrote:

> On Wed, Feb 29, 2012 at 2:06 PM, Greg Stein <gstein@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Feb 29, 2012 4:15 AM, "Alex Karasulu" <akarasulu@apache.org> wrote:
>> >
>> > On Wed, Feb 29, 2012 at 4:06 AM, Daniel Kulp <dkulp@apache.org> wrote:
>> >
>> > > On Wednesday, February 29, 2012 1:13:30 AM Mohammad Nour El-Din wrote:
>> > > > Hi Daniel...
>> > > >
>> > > > On Wed, Feb 29, 2012 at 1:07 AM, Daniel Kulp <dkulp@apache.org>
>> wrote:
>> > > > > We had a very similar discussion about the back word compatibility
>> > > > > classes/package names when Subversion graduated and we deemed
it
>> OK
>> for
>> > > > > them.
>> > > > > In fact, I believe they still of org.tigris packages in their
>> codebase
>> > > > > long
>> > > > > after graduation.   See:
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > >
>> http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/subversion/trunk/subversion/bindings/javah
>> > > > > l/src/org/
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > I don't see why we would or should hold Sqoop to a different
or
>> higher
>> > > > > standard at this point.   I agree with Jukka that if we, as a
>> > > foundation,
>> > > > > would like to re-address this, fine, take it to trademarks@ and
>> start
>> > > a
>> > > > > discussion.   However, from an INCUBATOR standpoint, the precedent
>> and
>> > > > > expectations have  been set.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > That's my $0.02 cents worth.
>> > > >
>> > > > Thanks a lot for this, but would you elaborate more on why this has
>> been
>> > > > accepted ? My believe is that there is some clarification that
>> should
>> be
>> > > > added to documentation so it is more clear for all people in the
>> future,
>> > > > your input on this example would help indeed.
>> > >
>> > > You could likely read the mail archives if you want all the details.
>> > > general@incubator in Nov 2009 had a thread,  dev@subversion in Jan
>> 2010
>> > > had a
>> > > thread, and I think the graduation vote in Feb 2010 had more
>> discussions.
>> > >
>> > > Basically, the Subversion had binary compatibility "rules" and there
>> was no
>> > > real "legal" requirement to force a huge disruption in the community
>> by
>> > > changing the package names.   The project had a plan to deprecate
>> > > them/create
>> > > wrappers/whatever so when it was appropriate to break compatibility
>> they
>> > > would.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > Did they remove those packages or did they remain?
>>
>> They remain.
>>
>> Keeping them is the right thing for our community and product. That is our
>> determination, and is our Right.
>>
>>
> Sorry but I don't think that's right.
>
>
>> Sqoop has determined backwards compatibility is important to their
>> community and wants to keep this (deprecated) interface for a while. So
>> where is the problem here, people?
>>
>>
> It's fine but those com.cloudera packages don't need to be hosted here.
> They can be hosted elsewhere and the backwards compatibility issue can
> still be handled.
>
>
>> Really. What is the problem with the extra interfaces?
>>
>>
> The package namespace is not ours. It's that simple G.
>
>
>> There is no legal (trademark or copyright) problem that I'm aware of.
>> There
>> is no technical problem that I'm aware of.
>
>
> OK do we have the right to create any kind of package or class under
> com.cloudera (or any other companies packages)?
>

Greg's right. Jukka was as well but for some reason I did not immediately
get it.

We cannot hold Scoop to a standard which we don't apply to other TLPs and
this needs to be a Foundation wide policy discussion. I still think the
practice of bundling classes and packages which are not in our namespace is
a serious issue. I'll take this up the other discussion thread.

I am withdrawing my veto and I apologize for any inconvenience this may
have caused the Scoop community.

-- 
Best Regards,
-- Alex

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