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From Joe Schaefer <joe_schae...@yahoo.com>
Subject Re: Fwd: mentoring individuals as well as projects
Date Wed, 01 Feb 2012 22:13:08 GMT
Link:  http://s.apache.org/qsY


It's worthwhile to review the entire surrounding thread in August 2010
for IPMC members to avoid rehashing old arguments.


----- Original Message -----
> From: Ross Gardler <rgardler@opendirective.com>
> To: general@incubator.apache.org; Joe Schaefer <joe_schaefer@yahoo.com>
> Cc: 
> Sent: Wednesday, February 1, 2012 5:07 PM
> Subject: Re: Fwd: mentoring individuals as well as projects
> 
> Joe, can you please restate (or link to the archives) the intent and
> practice of your "experiment"
> 
> Ross
> 
> On 1 February 2012 22:02, Joe Schaefer <joe_schaefer@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>  ----- Original Message -----
>> 
>>>  From: Marvin Humphrey <marvin@rectangular.com>
>>>  To: general@incubator.apache.org; Joe Schaefer 
> <joe_schaefer@yahoo.com>
>>>  Cc:
>>>  Sent: Wednesday, February 1, 2012 3:03 PM
>>>  Subject: Re: Fwd: mentoring individuals as well as projects
>>> 
>>>  On Wed, Feb 01, 2012 at 09:32:23AM -0800, Joe Schaefer wrote:
>>>>   I believe this is what Marvin is alluding to when he points out 
> that
>>>>   compentent IPMC oversight is little more than an illusive myth on 
> most
>>>>   of our podlings.
>>> 
>>>  A PPMC member, by virtue of their deep familiarity with the code base 
> and
>>>  close monitoring of ongoing development, is, once they have 
> internalized ASF
>>>  values and studied relevant legal issues, in a *better* position to 
> review a
>>>  release and protect their project's integrity than any Mentor.
>>> 
>>>>   We rely on the committers to police themselves and we trust that 
> they do,
>>>>   but we do not, as a group, empower such people to perform that 
> work on
>>>>   behalf of the IPMC.
>>> 
>>>  Giving suitably diligent podling contributors real oversight 
> responsibility
>>>  and accountability while they are still in the Incubator, allowing them 
> to
>>>  serve alongside experienced Mentors, watch them, ask them questions and
>>>  participate in their struggle... that's what, in my opinion, will 
> prepare
>>>  them to become superior stewards of their projects after graduation.
>> 
>>  Agreed Marvin, but we have a long way to go before people will ever realize
>>  this approach will largely solve our outstanding problems regarding IPMC 
> releases.
>>  People have to feel comfortable relaxing control of the reigns, and let go
>>  of the idea that only a very limited and special group of people are 
> capable
>>  of performing real oversight for the foundation.
>> 
>>  It's not easy, and it's certainly not conducive to Western ways of 
> thinking
>>  about governance and society.  But it works.
>> 
>>  IMO we should proceed the same way as always, by taking small and largely
>>  reversible steps.  Let's expand the "experiment" I started in 
> 2010 to another
>>  handful of projects, and see what really happens.  I suggest we include
>>  ManifoldCF for now.  Any others willing to participate?
>> 
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> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Ross Gardler (@rgardler)
> Programme Leader (Open Development)
> OpenDirective http://opendirective.com
> 

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