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From Benson Margulies <bimargul...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Small but otherwise happy podlings
Date Mon, 09 Jan 2012 18:14:59 GMT
On Mon, Jan 9, 2012 at 12:40 PM, Upayavira <uv@odoko.co.uk> wrote:
> Regarding attrition of mentors, it was discussed having mentors 'sign'
> the board report for their podling. Could that be encouraged, and used
> as a sign of minimum 'activity' for a mentor?

I feel that what I am learning here is that my topic needs to go take
a rest until the topic of non-responsible mentors is under control.

>
> Upayavira
>
> On Mon, Jan 9, 2012, at 08:10 AM, Sam Ruby wrote:
>> On Sun, Jan 8, 2012 at 9:55 PM, Benson Margulies <bimargulies@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > Sam,
>> >
>> > I started this separate thread because I view this situation as
>> > distinctive from the problem you are referring to here. I take that
>> > situation just as seriously as you do, I think. If you'd prefer that I
>> > drop this (less urgent) problem until that one is under control. I'm
>> > happy to do so.
>>
>> It is fair enough statement that not all of us need to work on what I
>> happen to think is most urgent.  This statement is true even if we
>> might happen to agree on the relative priorities.
>>
>> I will merely point out that your suggestion is at least mildly at
>> cross purposes to the issue that I want addressed.  One of my concerns
>> is that there are a number of podlings that are comfortably nestled in
>> with no need to graduate.  However, that is by no means my biggest
>> concern, which is the silent attrition rate of mentors.  In the case
>> of Isis, I am fully prepared to accept that that podling has at least
>> one active mentor.
>>
>> > No, I'm not asking for a blank check. I'm asking you and the other
>> > more experienced people if you think that the idea of treating
>> > Isis-like podlings differently from other podlings by giving them more
>> > autonomy and less oversight makes any sense to you. If you all say,
>> > 'no, we don't want to change anything,' I'll drop it. If you say 'hmm,
>> > let's talk details,' then I'll attempt to flesh out details. However,
>> > since your bottom line is 'make a more concrete proposal,' then I
>> > will, but I will wait a bit to see if this thread attracts any other
>> > thoughts about the overall concept first.
>>
>> You previously mentioned that there might be incubator requirements
>> that are burdensome on mentors.  Identifying those and ways to address
>> them are things that I could definitely support.
>>
>> Looking specifically at Isis, the last report[1] to the board contained:
>>
>>     Top 3 Issues to address in move towards graduation
>>
>>     * More blogging/publicity from existing community...
>>     * More users of the framework...
>>     * More committers to the framework
>>
>> The latter might be a concern.  The first two however are not direct
>> concerns.  At most, they are indirect: i.e., ways to attract
>> committers.  Looking at the incubator page[2], I see more than three
>> committers, and in fact four of them are ASF members.  If at least one
>> of these ASF members intends is willing to continue on the PMC, and
>> the lack of committers were the only issue, then I would be
>> comfortable with this podling graduating.
>>
>> - Sam Ruby
>>
>> [1]
>> http://apache.org/foundation/records/minutes/2011/board_minutes_2011_10_26.txt
>> [2] http://incubator.apache.org/projects/isis.html
>>
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>>
>
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