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From Robert Burrell Donkin <robertburrelldon...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Actively retiring projects
Date Sun, 15 Jan 2012 20:55:57 GMT
On Sun, Jan 15, 2012 at 7:40 PM, Sam Ruby <rubys@intertwingly.net> wrote:
> +1

Voting to terminate a project through lack of success sends a very
clear message. Being 'terminated' is a very clear and public
punishment, both for Mentors and for the project.

IMO termination should be used only as a sanction for podlings which
break our rules

The key service which Foundations like Apache provide is legal
paperwork. Unless backed by a corporate entity, this takes a lot of
volunteer energy. For volunteer led podlings, getting all the release
and legal side right limits time for community building. All this work
is wasted when a podling is terminated.

Being 'parked' would mean this work would not be wasted when temporary
external factors prevent continuation.

IMO where a podling is otherwise satisfactory but fails to reach
critical mass for sustainability in a reasonable period, this is not a
failure but a success. The IPMC should offer an alternative form of
graduation to a destination outside official Apache which preserves
the legal and release work.

Robert

> On Sun, Jan 15, 2012 at 2:31 PM, Ross Gardler
> <rgardler@opendirective.com> wrote:
>> +1
>>
>> Sent from my mobile device, please forgive errors and brevity.
>> On Jan 15, 2012 6:18 PM, "Joe Schaefer" <joe_schaefer@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I wish we could get past the whole idea that we are punishing
>>> a podling by insisting that they take their work to say github
>>> instead.  They probably can keep the name since we have no interest
>>> in it ourselves.
>>>
>>> We maintain an open-door policy for new projects, and I think that
>>> is a good thing that we should keep.  What we lack is a sensible
>>> mechanism for reviewing longstanding projects in terms of their
>>> projected future in this place.  We did NOT promise anyone free
>>> project hosting, and if they want that there are lots of places
>>> to get that.  We merely provide an opportunity that with a little
>>> luck, hard work, and determination, they can join the ASF and
>>> become an Apache project.  But they deserve an answer at some point.
>>>
>>>
>>> Purgatory is not what we were designed to offer, never.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> > From: Mohammad Nour El-Din <nour.mohammad@gmail.com>
>>> > To: general@incubator.apache.org; antelder@apache.org
>>> > Cc:
>>> > Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2012 1:09 PM
>>> > Subject: Re: Actively retiring projects
>>> >
>>> > On Sun, Jan 15, 2012 at 6:01 PM, ant elder <ant.elder@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >>  On Sun, Jan 15, 2012 at 1:57 PM, Sam Ruby <rubys@intertwingly.net>
>>> > wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>  > Now to go back and answer Ant's question directly,
>>> >>
>>> >>  Sam, what you replied doesn't really answer my question directly.
The
>>> >>  issue with the long term poddlings which I know about is not that
>>> >>  their reports are not read, they are in fact read so something else
is
>>> >>  wrong if there is in fact a problem at all. I'm sorry that you're
>>> > not
>>> >>  happy with how Kato went, as i said here [1] i expect that to be
>>> >>  resolved shortly and they will have done that themselves rather than
>>> >>  being pushed out by Incubator PMC which i think is a good outcome.
>>> >>
>>> >>  <big snip>
>>> >>
>>> >>  >
>>> >>  > Speaking as an individual Director here, but we have a board
meeting
>>> >>  > in a few days and I can obtain an Official Word™ on the matter
if
>>> >>  > that's what people here would like, but I'm highly confident
>>> > that the
>>> >>  > outcome (directed at the chair) will be something along the lines
of
>>> >>  > "see to it that podling reports are adequately vetted before
>>> >>  > forwarding them to the board"
>>> >>  >
>>> >>
>>> >>  I'd prefer to have an official response from the board on if in fact
>>> >>  it matters if incubation takes longer than a year. Podlings like Nuvem
>>> >>  or Wink or Photark or Kato or which ever else are just small and slow,
>>> >>  so what?
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> > +1 about "... small and slow, so what?"
>>> >
>>> > It is true some podlings are just slow and small regarding attracting
>>> *new*
>>> > blood to the podling's community, but the community itself is active, and
>>> > IMHO it is not fair to punish them for that.
>>> >
>>> > On the other hand we still need to answer the question "OK, so till when
>>> we
>>> > should keep them in the Incubator ?" which is a very valid question,
>>> > honestly I don't have a definitive answer for that, but I would give a
>>> lead
>>> > to an answer/discussion in a form of a question
>>> >
>>> > "Is the Incubator the right place for such podlings ?"
>>> >
>>> > If the answer is *yes* then we should find a way to manage the increasing
>>> > number of accepted podling into the incubator relative to the number of
>>> > active/available mentors, and also we should keep a list of podlings
>>> which
>>> > are not small and they should be doing good and hence being in the
>>> > Incubator for some long time indicates that there is something wrong.
>>> >
>>> > If the answer is No, then:
>>> >   - We should ask them to retire, which is not fair IMHO as I mentioned
>>> > above
>>> >   - Or Can we create another level of incubtion like, which can be the
>>> same
>>> > as the normal Incubator but we can lessen down the number of initially
>>> > assigned mentors to 1 and recommend one of the initial committers to
>>> become
>>> > an active Mentor, provided that they have shown that they adapted to the
>>> > ASF rules very well. This is just a suggestion.
>>> >
>>> > Thoughts ?
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >>
>>> >>  (and please note that there is no disrespect intended here. the ideas
>>> >>  and suggestions in this thread and others recently do seem like good
>>> >>  stuff to be trying, regardless of the age of a poddling)
>>> >>
>>> >>    ...ant
>>> >>
>>> >>  [1] http://apache.markmail.org/message/trurg7pnt5yk7tei
>>> >>
>>> >>  ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> >>  To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>> >>  For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > Thanks
>>> > - Mohammad Nour
>>> > ----
>>> > "Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep
>>> > moving"
>>> > - Albert Einstein
>>> >
>>>
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>>>
>>>
>
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