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From Ralph Goers <ralph.go...@dslextreme.com>
Subject Re: Small but otherwise happy podlings
Date Wed, 11 Jan 2012 00:43:10 GMT
I'm not worried about a mentor that can't write a decent report. I want a podling that can
write a decent report.  I'm much more worried when the mentor can't prod the podling to write
a report, and doesn't review it or sign it when they do.  If the podling submits a poor report
that is evidence enough that the mentors need a bit of education.

Ralph

On Jan 10, 2012, at 2:26 PM, Joe Schaefer wrote:

> It's not about blame, it's about tangible, recorded demonstrations of
> oversight.  As I said elsewhere we place no conditions on mentors
> when they sign up to mentor a podling, and I think that is part
> of the problem we face here.  A podling will be able to report about
> a poor report from a mentor easily enough, we don't need to police
> each other all that much.  We do need to start actively collaborating
> tho, and we can't do that without ensuring there's actual participation.
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Marcel Offermans <marcel.offermans@luminis.nl>
>> To: general@incubator.apache.org; Joe Schaefer <joe_schaefer@yahoo.com>
>> Cc: 
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 5:21 PM
>> Subject: Re: Small but otherwise happy podlings
>> 
>> I see your point. I still think that if you read a "bad" report it 
>> does not matter who wrote it, in the end you can still blame the mentors because

>> it's their responsibility. Who wrote it is not that relevant to me.
>> 
>> On Jan 10, 2012, at 23:10 , Joe Schaefer wrote:
>> 
>>> The thing is there is no way to tell whether or not a mentor is
>>> even CAPABLE of writing a status report for a podling if the podling
>>> is immediately tasked with doing so themselves.  We are in the boat
>>> we are in now because we have for too long assumed any member who
>>> offered to mentor a podling was ready, able, and willing to do a decent
>>> job of it.  Without putting any feedback loops into the system for
>>> determining whether mentors are performing their job well we will
>>> never be able to move to a system that's both providing proper 
>> oversight
>>> organizationally and distributing trust to the mentors who are providing 
>> it.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: Marcel Offermans <marcel.offermans@luminis.nl>
>>>> To: general@incubator.apache.org
>>>> Cc: antelder@apache.org; Joe Schaefer <joe_schaefer@yahoo.com>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 5:03 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: Small but otherwise happy podlings
>>>> 
>>>> Whilst I agree there is value in demonstrating a starting podling what 
>> a good 
>>>> report should look like by doing it for them, I also strongly believe 
>> in 
>>>> learning by doing, so I would still propose that a podling has a go at 
>> it 
>>>> themselves, before having a mentor step in. In the end, this is also a 
>> question 
>>>> of "mentoring style" and I think we should leave that up to 
>> the 
>>>> mentors and podlings.
>>>> 
>>>> A mentor should be actively involved in the discussion about the report 
>> though, 
>>>> ensuring that the end result is good.
>>>> 
>>>> Greetings, Marcel
>>>> 
>>>> On Jan 10, 2012, at 22:52 , Joe Schaefer wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> I don't know about you, but in the podlings I mentor I am 
>> subscribed
>>>>> to most if not all of the mailing lists and try to read the bulk of
>>>>> it all.  I could easily write status reports for them if it was my
>>>>> responsibility to do so, and for the initial 6 months would prefer
>>>>> that mentors showed their podlings and their fellow mentors what 
>> can
>>>>> be done with a properreport before passing that duty along to the 
>> PPMC.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: ant elder <ant.elder@gmail.com>
>>>>>> To: general@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>> Cc: 
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 4:47 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: Small but otherwise happy podlings
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I like the idea of mentors being expected to signoff on the 
>> wiki just
>>>>>> to show that they are paying attention, but i also agree that 
>> it might
>>>>>> be useful to have along with the poddling reports to have 
>> comments
>>>>>> from the mentors. So how about doing both? Just extend the 
>> mentor
>>>>>> signoff section to include comments so a poddling report is the
>>>>>> poddling comments, mentor comments about whats going on and 
>> what
>>>>>> they'd like to see the poddling doing in the next months 
>> and a 
>>>> signoff
>>>>>> from all active mentors.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Or Joe are you saying that we should scrap the poddling 
>> comments bit
>>>>>> entirely? I think its useful to get a quick overview of whats 
>> going on
>>>>>> and it gets them used to the TLP board report requirement.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>     ...ant
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Mon, Jan 9, 2012 at 6:27 PM, Joe Schaefer 
>>>> <joe_schaefer@yahoo.com> 
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> Lame.  I would actually like to see mentors WRITING the 
>> reports
>>>>>>> at least for the first 6 months to a year, then going to 
>> sign-off
>>>>>>> on the wiki.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>> From: William A. Rowe Jr. <wrowe@rowe-clan.net>
>>>>>>>> To: general@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>>> Cc: Upayavira <uv@odoko.co.uk>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, January 9, 2012 1:23 PM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Small but otherwise happy podlings
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On 1/9/2012 11:40 AM, Upayavira wrote:
>>>>>>>>>    Regarding attrition of mentors, it was discussed 
>> having 
>>>> mentors
>>>>>>>> 'sign'
>>>>>>>>>    the board report for their podling. Could that be

>> 
>>>> encouraged, and 
>>>>>> used
>>>>>>>>>    as a sign of minimum 'activity' for a 
>> mentor?
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> How about simply sign off on podling-dev@?  Even if it 
>> is 
>>>> "Thanks 
>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> drafting this!  No edits from me."
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
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>>>>> 
>>>>> 
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>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
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>>> 
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>>> 
>>> 
>> 
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