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From Joe Schaefer <joe_schae...@yahoo.com>
Subject Re: Actively retiring projects
Date Tue, 17 Jan 2012 04:52:15 GMT
Furthermore... IBM is in no position to offer ANYTHING

to Oracle regarding their status in the Kato podling.
Our rules forbid collusion and corporate block voting,
so even if every person on the PPMC were an IBM employee
they'd still be expected to cast their votes for a prospective
Oracle committer based on their own individual criterion
for committership.  And so far I've seen nothing to indicate
Oracle will be bringing any material contributions to Kato.
Nothing.

The whole idea that the Kato project is waiting on an Oracle rep
to appear was an uncorrected IBM fantasy.  At some point in the
project's lifetime they actually did discuss what to do in case
Oracle didn't show, and the people who spoke up preferred that the
project continue on towards graduation and ignore the JSR.

Those people were simply ignored.





>________________________________
> From: Joe Schaefer <joe_schaefer@yahoo.com>
>To: "general@incubator.apache.org" <general@incubator.apache.org> 
>Sent: Monday, January 16, 2012 9:43 PM
>Subject: Re: Actively retiring projects
> 
>
>Wow, the Kato JSR is IBM-led, so there aren't even
>any IP obstacles to continuing on as an Apache project.
>No Apache project should ever put itself in the position
>of saying to the world: please leave us alone while we
>await the arrival of X.  For any value of X.  Apache
>projects are supposed to be welcome to the public and
>volunteer driven, not aconsortium of corporate-controlled
>entities.  Therewas simply no good reason for those
>reports to everstate that the project was mothballed
>until Oracle'sarrival.  That is not aligned with how
>we operate at all, and the mentors should've corrected
>it years ago.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>________________________________
>> From: Joe Schaefer <joe_schaefer@yahoo.com>
>>To: "general@incubator.apache.org" <general@incubator.apache.org> 
>>Sent: Monday, January 16, 2012 12:17 PM
>>Subject: Re: Actively retiring projects
>> 
>>
>>I can't figure out what is more important to you
>>at this point Robert, salvaging your ego or helping
>>your podling succeed here.  If I were in your shoes
>>I would stop trying to defend my past actions there
>>and give the podling a clear choice: what's more 
>>
>>important to them- faithful implementation of an Oracle
>>led JSR or advancement to a full Apache project?
>>Open source projects control their own destiny, not
>>Oracle, and that is just as true with Kato as it was
>>with Harmony.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>________________________________
>>> From: Robert Burrell Donkin <robertburrelldonkin@gmail.com>
>>>To: general@incubator.apache.org 
>>>Sent: Monday, January 16, 2012 10:45 AM
>>>Subject: Re: Actively retiring projects
>>> 
>>>On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 2:10 PM, Sam Ruby <rubys@intertwingly.net> wrote:
>>>> On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 8:22 AM, Robert Burrell Donkin
>>>> <robertburrelldonkin@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 11:56 AM, Ross Gardler
>>>>> <rgardler@opendirective.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On 16 January 2012 11:51, Robert Burrell Donkin
>>>>>> <robertburrelldonkin@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
 ...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Terminating projects with active communities is the area of active
 dispute
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Can you please provide a link to a message in the archive that states
>>>>>> that a project with an active community should be terminated?
>>>>>
>>>>> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/201201.mbox/%3CCAOFYJNbZ6PYSHZnfgm7GQSVwECoKqDQRjHMJwOLCmXCYUBbiUA%40mail.gmail.com%3E
>>>>
>>>> Close reading of that message indicates a suggestion that an inactive
>>>> community be terminated.
>>>
>>>The email suggests termination as the final solution for a number of podlings
>>>
>>>If the intention was to highlight potentially inactive podlings,
>>>labeling them as 'inactive' would have been clearer
>>>
>>><snip>
>>>
>>>>> Language is important. Project 'termination' feels very different from
>>>>> 'parking' or 'emeritus graduation', even though the actions taken in
>>>>> each case may be very similar.
>>>>
>>>>> IMO it's time to start
 thinking about, describing and documentation
>>>>> exit paths which lead outside Apache without a judgment of failure on
>>>>> anyone's part
>>>>
>>>> http://incubator.apache.org/projects/index.html#graduated
>>>> http://incubator.apache.org/projects/index.html#dormant
>>>> http://incubator.apache.org/projects/index.html#retired
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps "dormant" would be an appropriate description of the Kato
>>>> polding at this time?
>>>
>>>Kato is now - and has been - stalled for more than a year: work was
>>>stopped by an external impediment (rather than interest drifting away)
>>>[1]
>>>
>>>It would have been clearer to be able to mark this sort of situation
>>>and suspend animation
>>>
>>>Robert
>>>[1] The community
 awaits a decision from Oracle. At
 one time, this was
>>>expected promptly. Now hope fades.
>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
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