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From Joe Schaefer <joe_schae...@yahoo.com>
Subject Re: Parking Projects [WAS Re: -1 on this months board report (was: Small but otherwise happy podlings)]
Date Sun, 15 Jan 2012 17:44:06 GMT
I think the email trail will be fairly clear one way
or the other, and hence still oppose adding more labels
to the situation.



----- Original Message -----
> From: Daniel Shahaf <d.s@daniel.shahaf.name>
> To: "general@incubator.apache.org" <general@incubator.apache.org>
> Cc: 
> Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2012 12:37 PM
> Subject: Re: Parking Projects [WAS Re: -1 on this months board report (was: Small but
otherwise happy podlings)]
> 
> Relevant difference: when we reject a project we do that on public
> lists, when you apply to a university the fact you did so is private.
> 
> Joe Schaefer wrote on Sun, Jan 15, 2012 at 09:03:45 -0800:
>>  I don't see why.  When you apply to a university you either
>>  receive an acceptance letter or a letter of regret; we don't
>>  have to make any other distinctions regarding our internal
>>  reasons either.  Simply part ways amicably and help them
>>  thru the exit door, no matter if they were chronic policy
>>  violators or simply didn't muster a sufficient dev community.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>  ----- Original Message -----
>>  > From: Daniel Shahaf <d.s@daniel.shahaf.name>
>>  > To: general@incubator.apache.org
>>  > Cc: 
>>  > Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2012 12:00 PM
>>  > Subject: Re: Parking Projects [WAS Re: -1 on this months board report 
> (was: Small but otherwise happy podlings)]
>>  > 
>>  > Joe Schaefer wrote on Sun, Jan 15, 2012 at 08:48:02 -0800:
>>  >>  Why do we need these obscure notions to characterize a failed 
> incubation
>>  >>  effort?  Can't we be adults and say it simply didn't work 
> out, no
>>  >>  harm no foul, best of luck in your future endeavors elsewhere?
>>  >>  I sure hope we aren't going to get into the business of 
> promising
>>  >>  zombie projects a perpetual home in the incubator.
>>  >> 
>>  > 
>>  > For that to work we should be able to make a (public) distinction
>>  > between projects that failed to graduate due to 'negative' 
> reasons
>>  > (say: having dev discussions off-list) and for 'non-positive' 
> reasons
>>  > (say: failed to maintain 3 active PMCers).
>>  > 
>>  > And clarify if/how projects that were leaved may ask to reenter.
>>  > 
>>  >> 
>>  >>  ----- Original Message -----
>>  >>  > From: Robert Burrell Donkin 
> <robertburrelldonkin@gmail.com>
>>  >>  > To: general@incubator.apache.org
>>  >>  > Cc: 
>>  >>  > Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2012 11:31 AM
>>  >>  > Subject: Parking Projects [WAS Re: -1 on this months board 
> report 
>>  > (was: Small but otherwise happy podlings)]
>>  >>  > 
>>  >>  > On Wed, Jan 11, 2012 at 11:55 PM, Sam Ruby 
>>  > <rubys@intertwingly.net> wrote:
>>  >>  >>  On Wed, Jan 11, 2012 at 6:32 PM, Stuart Monteith 
>>  > <stukato@stoo.me.uk> 
>>  >>  > wrote:
>>  >>  > 
>>  >>  > <snip>
>>  >>  > 
>>  >>  >>>  I'll back up what Ant said - Robert and Ant 
> have shown 
>>  > heroic 
>>  >>  > patience as mentors on this project. The situation will 
> resolve itself 
>>  > one way 
>>  >>  > or the other soon.
>>  >>  >> 
>>  >>  >>  If the question is whether Robert and Ant are good 
> guys, there is 
>>  > no
>>  >>  >>  question, they both have my vote on that question.
>>  >>  > 
>>  >>  > As a Kato mentor, I see my role as ensuring that the 
> Foundation is
>>  >>  > safe and that Kato is run the Apache Way, not fixing all 
> that's 
>>  > broken
>>  >>  > in the Incubator.
>>  >>  > 
>>  >>  >>  If the question is whether or not a podling can 
> essentially copy 
>>  > and
>>  >>  >>  paste the same report quarter after quarter, year after 
> year, 
>>  > with
>>  >>  >>  little or no change, then I strongly object.
>>  >>  > 
>>  >>  > ATM Incubation works well only for main sequence projects. 
> The IPMC
>>  >>  > has collectively failed to account in its system for 
> podlings that
>>  >>  > encounter unusual issues that force them from the sequence.
>>  >>  > 
>>  >>  > IMO it is the responsibility of the IPMC to fix the system 
> when it
>>  >>  > breaks, not the Mentors of the podling. For month after 
> month, Kato
>>  >>  > has been flagged in the reports as stalled but no one in the 
> IPMC
>>  >>  > community thought to even discuss how to fix this before 
> now.
>>  >>  > 
>>  >>  > (And now the IPMC seems to have brought only one club: 
> terminate any
>>  >>  > podling which leaves the main sequence...)
>>  >>  > 
>>  >>  > Kato is not the first podling to be stalled. It will not be 
> the last.
>>  >>  > A 'parked' status (freezing the podling but allowing 
> an 
>>  > efficient
>>  >>  > restart) is IMO the right way to manage this.
>>  >>  > 
>>  >>  > Robert
>>  >>  > 
>>  >>  > 
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>>  >> 
>>  >>  
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