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From Mark Struberg <strub...@yahoo.de>
Subject Re: -1 on this months board report (was: Small but otherwise happy podlings)
Date Thu, 12 Jan 2012 00:07:41 GMT
As with most things in life, things need a kick from time to time.


What about collecting a nice list of 'what's the monthly report thingy about' which explains
that it's not just filed unread but is pretty important. 
Plus again explain what information the board likes to get and that it's not only a technical
report but should also reflect the state of the respective projects community.

And then send this nice little letter to PMCs@a.o

LieGrue,
strub


----- Original Message -----
> From: Sam Ruby <rubys@intertwingly.net>
> To: general@incubator.apache.org
> Cc: 
> Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2012 12:55 AM
> Subject: Re: -1 on this months board report (was: Small but otherwise happy podlings)
> 
> On Wed, Jan 11, 2012 at 6:32 PM, Stuart Monteith <stukato@stoo.me.uk> 
> wrote:
>>  Hi,
>>         Does not having the report forwarded imply being pushed out of the 
> incubator? As far as I can tell, the point being made was that there was nothing 
> going on in the project, and so nothing should be reported - I'll leave 
> Benson to clarify.
> 
> Contrary to how things work here in the Incubator, at least 6
> Directors read each and every report that is forwarded to the Board
> monthly.  Apparently Benson feels that it is unreasonable to expect at
> least one Incubator PMC member to actually read the one report that
> this PMC sends on.  Yes, I'm irritated.
> 
> A number of times a year the board rejects a report for one reason or
> another.  In each case, we do not kick the project out, we simply ask
> that a corrected report be submitted the next month.  In extreme
> cases, we as a project to go back to a monthly reporting schedule.
> 
>>  I'll back up what Ant said - Robert and Ant have shown heroic patience 
> as mentors on this project. The situation will resolve itself one way or the 
> other soon.
> 
> If the question is whether Robert and Ant are good guys, there is no
> question, they both have my vote on that question.
> 
> If the question is whether or not a podling can essentially copy and
> paste the same report quarter after quarter, year after year, with
> little or no change, then I strongly object.
> 
> If you believe that unlike previous quarters, there is some reason to
> actually believe that things will be clearing up shortly, at a very
> minimum, put THAT in the report.  Show that something is actually
> happening, or something new is being attempted, or something
> unexpected came up.  Anything other than repeating the same optimistic
> and apparently unrealistic content over and over again.
> 
>>  Regards,
>>         Stuart
> 
> - Sam Ruby
> 
> P.S. I will state that we already have had a more meaningful
> discussion on this topic than has been typical for the incubator.  I
> encourage others to participate in this discussion.  Both people who
> agree with me and people see things differently.  Anything would be
> better than mindlessly forwarding on reports without actually reading
> them.
> 
>>  On 11 Jan 2012, at 23:05, ant elder wrote:
>> 
>>>  On Wed, Jan 11, 2012 at 10:49 PM, Sam Ruby 
> <rubys@intertwingly.net> wrote:
>>>>  On Wed, Jan 11, 2012 at 4:19 PM, Benson Margulies 
> <bimargulies@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>  And here we return to a thread of some weeks ago. One chair 
> can't
>>>>>  review all those reports and push the bounce buttons. Some 
> other
>>>>>  people have to step up to help.
>>>> 
>>>>  This Board member reads each and every one of them every month.  So 
> it
>>>>  is no change in workload to me to push this work down.
>>>> 
>>>>  Instead of talking about this abstractly, -1 on forwarding to the
>>>>  board the following reports.  I'll start with the most 
> egregious one:
>>>> 
>>>>  -1 on forwarding on the Kato report.  Here are prior reports from 
> this
>>>>  podling: https://whimsy.apache.org/board/minutes/Kato.html
>>>> 
>>>>  Key excerpts:
>>>>   Kato:
>>>>     Jan 2012
>>>>       * Decide in what form the podling should continue, if at all.
>>>>     Sept 2011
>>>>       * Decide in what form the podling should continue, if at all.
>>>>     June 2011
>>>>       * Decide in what form the podling should continue, if at all.
>>>>     March 2011
>>>>       * To be determined once Oracle's involvement has been 
> established.
>>>>     Dec 2010
>>>>       * To be determined once Oracle's involvement has been 
> established.
>>>>     Sep 2010
>>>>       * To be determined once Oracle's involvement has been 
> established.
>>>>     June 2010
>>>>       * To be determined once Oracle's involvement has been 
> established.
>>>> 
>>> 
>>>  I'm a mentor for Kato, and there is another mentor who is active, 
> and
>>>  we talk to them regularly about deciding what to do. I think 
> they're
>>>  close to deciding to retire the poddling and i think its likley thats
>>>  what they'll be saying come their next report. I think its good if
>>>  they can come to that decision by themselves rather than be pushed
>>>  out, is it really causing any trouble to have them sitting there not
>>>  doing very much in the meantime?
>>> 
>>>    ...ant
>>> 
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