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From Joe Schaefer <joe_schae...@yahoo.com>
Subject Re: Small but otherwise happy podlings
Date Wed, 11 Jan 2012 03:10:26 GMT
UNSIGNED JANUARY REPORTS:

Bloodhound

Callback

Celix

Chukwa

Deft

HISE

JSPWiki

Kato

Kitty

Mesos

Openmeetings

Tashi

VXQuery




----- Original Message -----
> From: Joe Schaefer <joe_schaefer@yahoo.com>
> To: "general@incubator.apache.org" <general@incubator.apache.org>
> Cc: 
> Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 7:53 PM
> Subject: Re: Small but otherwise happy podlings
> 
> Let's stop discussing this issue in the abstract then and take
> a look at the current set of reports.  Of the ones with signatures
> of mentors, I see very little to gripe about- the topics and subjects
> are mostly relevant to the podling's progress towards graduation.
> 
> 
> Now lets look at the remainder- several projects with no report whatsoever,
> and Tashi, which has been incubating since 2008, writes exclusively about
> technical issues and really says zilch about their progress towards
> graduation.  IMO that project clearly is in dire need of guidance.
> What should we do, just pass that unsigned report along to the board
> and continue to ignore the podling?
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
>>  From: Ralph Goers <ralph.goers@dslextreme.com>
>>  To: general@incubator.apache.org
>>  Cc: 
>>  Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 7:43 PM
>>  Subject: Re: Small but otherwise happy podlings
>> 
>>  I'm not worried about a mentor that can't write a decent report. I 
> want 
>>  a podling that can write a decent report.  I'm much more worried when 
> the 
>>  mentor can't prod the podling to write a report, and doesn't review 
> it 
>>  or sign it when they do.  If the podling submits a poor report that is 
> evidence 
>>  enough that the mentors need a bit of education.
>> 
>>  Ralph
>> 
>>  On Jan 10, 2012, at 2:26 PM, Joe Schaefer wrote:
>> 
>>>   It's not about blame, it's about tangible, recorded 
> demonstrations 
>>  of
>>>   oversight.  As I said elsewhere we place no conditions on mentors
>>>   when they sign up to mentor a podling, and I think that is part
>>>   of the problem we face here.  A podling will be able to report about
>>>   a poor report from a mentor easily enough, we don't need to police
>>>   each other all that much.  We do need to start actively collaborating
>>>   tho, and we can't do that without ensuring there's actual 
>>  participation.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>   ----- Original Message -----
>>>>   From: Marcel Offermans <marcel.offermans@luminis.nl>
>>>>   To: general@incubator.apache.org; Joe Schaefer 
>>  <joe_schaefer@yahoo.com>
>>>>   Cc: 
>>>>   Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 5:21 PM
>>>>   Subject: Re: Small but otherwise happy podlings
>>>> 
>>>>   I see your point. I still think that if you read a "bad" 
> 
>>  report it 
>>>>   does not matter who wrote it, in the end you can still blame the 
>>  mentors because 
>>>>   it's their responsibility. Who wrote it is not that relevant 
> to me.
>>>> 
>>>>   On Jan 10, 2012, at 23:10 , Joe Schaefer wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>>   The thing is there is no way to tell whether or not a mentor 
> is
>>>>>   even CAPABLE of writing a status report for a podling if the 
>>  podling
>>>>>   is immediately tasked with doing so themselves.  We are in the 
> boat
>>>>>   we are in now because we have for too long assumed any member 
> who
>>>>>   offered to mentor a podling was ready, able, and willing to do 
> a 
>>  decent
>>>>>   job of it.  Without putting any feedback loops into the system 
> for
>>>>>   determining whether mentors are performing their job well we 
> will
>>>>>   never be able to move to a system that's both providing 
> proper 
>>>>   oversight
>>>>>   organizationally and distributing trust to the mentors who are 
> 
>>  providing 
>>>>   it.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>   ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>   From: Marcel Offermans <marcel.offermans@luminis.nl>
>>>>>>   To: general@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>   Cc: antelder@apache.org; Joe Schaefer 
>>  <joe_schaefer@yahoo.com>
>>>>>>   Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 5:03 PM
>>>>>>   Subject: Re: Small but otherwise happy podlings
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>   Whilst I agree there is value in demonstrating a starting 
>>  podling what 
>>>>   a good 
>>>>>>   report should look like by doing it for them, I also 
> strongly 
>>  believe 
>>>>   in 
>>>>>>   learning by doing, so I would still propose that a podling 
> has 
>>  a go at 
>>>>   it 
>>>>>>   themselves, before having a mentor step in. In the end, 
> this is 
>>  also a 
>>>>   question 
>>>>>>   of "mentoring style" and I think we should leave 
> that 
>>  up to 
>>>>   the 
>>>>>>   mentors and podlings.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>   A mentor should be actively involved in the discussion 
> about 
>>  the report 
>>>>   though, 
>>>>>>   ensuring that the end result is good.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>   Greetings, Marcel
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>   On Jan 10, 2012, at 22:52 , Joe Schaefer wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>   I don't know about you, but in the podlings I 
> mentor I 
>>  am 
>>>>   subscribed
>>>>>>>   to most if not all of the mailing lists and try to 
> read the 
>>  bulk of
>>>>>>>   it all.  I could easily write status reports for them 
> if it 
>>  was my
>>>>>>>   responsibility to do so, and for the initial 6 months 
> would 
>>  prefer
>>>>>>>   that mentors showed their podlings and their fellow 
> mentors 
>>  what 
>>>>   can
>>>>>>>   be done with a properreport before passing that duty 
> along 
>>  to the 
>>>>   PPMC.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>   ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>   From: ant elder <ant.elder@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>   To: general@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>>>   Cc: 
>>>>>>>>   Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 4:47 PM
>>>>>>>>   Subject: Re: Small but otherwise happy podlings
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>   I like the idea of mentors being expected to 
> signoff on 
>>  the 
>>>>   wiki just
>>>>>>>>   to show that they are paying attention, but i also 
> 
>>  agree that 
>>>>   it might
>>>>>>>>   be useful to have along with the poddling reports 
> to 
>>  have 
>>>>   comments
>>>>>>>>   from the mentors. So how about doing both? Just 
> extend 
>>  the 
>>>>   mentor
>>>>>>>>   signoff section to include comments so a poddling 
>>  report is the
>>>>>>>>   poddling comments, mentor comments about whats 
> going on 
>>  and 
>>>>   what
>>>>>>>>   they'd like to see the poddling doing in the 
> next 
>>  months 
>>>>   and a 
>>>>>>   signoff
>>>>>>>>   from all active mentors.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>   Or Joe are you saying that we should scrap the 
> poddling 
>> 
>>>>   comments bit
>>>>>>>>   entirely? I think its useful to get a quick 
> overview of 
>>  whats 
>>>>   going on
>>>>>>>>   and it gets them used to the TLP board report 
>>  requirement.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>       ...ant
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>   On Mon, Jan 9, 2012 at 6:27 PM, Joe Schaefer 
>>>>>>   <joe_schaefer@yahoo.com> 
>>>>>>>>   wrote:
>>>>>>>>>   Lame.  I would actually like to see mentors 
> WRITING 
>>  the 
>>>>   reports
>>>>>>>>>   at least for the first 6 months to a year, 
> then 
>>  going to 
>>>>   sign-off
>>>>>>>>>   on the wiki.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>   ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>   From: William A. Rowe Jr. 
>>  <wrowe@rowe-clan.net>
>>>>>>>>>>   To: general@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>>   Cc: Upayavira <uv@odoko.co.uk>
>>>>>>>>>>   Sent: Monday, January 9, 2012 1:23 PM
>>>>>>>>>>   Subject: Re: Small but otherwise happy 
> podlings
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>   On 1/9/2012 11:40 AM, Upayavira wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>      Regarding attrition of mentors, it 
> was 
>>  discussed 
>>>>   having 
>>>>>>   mentors
>>>>>>>>>>   'sign'
>>>>>>>>>>>      the board report for their podling. 
> 
>>  Could that be 
>>>> 
>>>>>>   encouraged, and 
>>>>>>>>   used
>>>>>>>>>>>      as a sign of minimum 
> 'activity' 
>>  for a 
>>>>   mentor?
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>   How about simply sign off on 
> podling-dev@?  
>>  Even if it 
>>>>   is 
>>>>>>   "Thanks 
>>>>>>>>   for
>>>>>>>>>>   drafting this!  No edits from me."
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
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>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
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>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
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