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From Niclas Hedhman <nic...@hedhman.org>
Subject Re: [PROPOSAL] Apache Bloodhound
Date Tue, 06 Dec 2011 02:37:33 GMT
I suggest legal-discuss@ is involved to answer it. Although it is Cat
A license, I don't think it is fully kosher, as we promise that the
original contributor hasn't submarined any patents, but BSD doesn't
state this. Maybe it is a tiny point, but more eyes from
legal-discuss@ won't hurt...

On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 6:26 AM, Hyrum K Wright
<hyrum.wright@wandisco.com> wrote:
> I don't know the proper answer to the licensing and patent questions.
> My understanding (standard caveats apply) is that the BSD is a
> Category A license, and as software distributed under it may be
> included in ASF software such as Bloodhound.  I'm unsure what the
> concern about BSD notices in source file is, nor do I know if such
> concern is well-founded.
>
> -Hyrum
>
> On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 8:22 PM, Niclas Hedhman <niclas@hedhman.org> wrote:
>> SO, IIUIC, the first step is to import TRAC, and we will have
>> primarily a BSD codebase as the main body of code?
>> Does this mean that all BSD notices in source files must live in ASF
>> repository for all eternity, assuming that we are allowed to
>> sublicense into ALv2 (which I think is no problem)?
>> And what about the lack of patent license that we offer downstream,
>> but have not received from upstream?
>>
>>
>> Cheers
>> Niclas
>>
>> On Sat, Dec 3, 2011 at 12:14 AM, Mark Struberg <struberg@yahoo.de> wrote:
>>> so this is basically Trac ++ and a fork of Trac ?
>>>
>>> Or is it a completely rewritten new approach?
>>>
>>> just curious :)
>>>
>>>
>>> LieGrue,
>>> strub
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: Hyrum K Wright <hyrum.wright@wandisco.com>
>>>> To: general@incubator.apache.org
>>>> Cc: Ian Wild <ian.wild@wandisco.com>; Greg Stein <gstein@gmail.com>
>>>> Sent: Friday, December 2, 2011 4:53 PM
>>>> Subject: [PROPOSAL] Apache Bloodhound
>>>>
>>>> Hello Incubator!
>>>>
>>>> WANdisco would like to propose the inclusion of a new project, Apache
>>>> Bloodhound, to the Incubator.  The proposal has been posted to the
>>>> wiki[1], and is also included below.  We've privately discussed this
>>>> project with a number of individuals, but would now like to get the
>>>> discussion rolling here.  Bloodhound is new effort, based on Trac[2],
>>>> to provide issue tracking and collaboration tools for developers.
>>>>
>>>> We realize the proposal is a work-in-progress, and as such look
>>>> forward to feedback and discussion.  We hope to attract mentors and
>>>> other interested parties through the incubation proposal process, and
>>>> further diversify the community as we move through incubation.  In
>>>> particular, this project is an opportunity to build a new community
>>>> around the codebase, and we look forward to doing so at the ASF.
>>>>
>>>> -Hyrum
>>>>
>>>> [1] http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/BloodhoundProposal
>>>> [2] http://trac.edgewall.org/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> = Bloodhound - Collaborative development tools based on Trac =
>>>>
>>>> == Abstract ==
>>>>
>>>> Bloodhound will be a software development collaboration tool,
>>>> including issue tracking, wiki and repository browsing.  Essentially
>>>> an improved distribution of the well-known Trac project, Bloodhound
>>>> will include the common and useful plugins to enable a more complete
>>>> distribution than a typical Trac installation.
>>>>
>>>> == Proposal ==
>>>>
>>>> Bloodhound will be a software development collaboration tool, based on
>>>> the existing Trac project, which will include a repository browser,
>>>> wiki, and defect tracker.  In addition to the standard Trac
>>>> installation, Bloodhound will incorporate a number of popular modules
>>>> into the core distribution, and include additional improvements
>>>> developed (as [[http://trac-hacks.org/|plugins]]) outside the Trac
>>>> project.
>>>>
>>>> == Background ==
>>>>
>>>> The [[http://trac.edgewall.org/|Trac project]] is a BSD-licensed
>>>> collaboration tool used to assist in software development.  It has a
>>>> wide user base, a pluggable infrastructure, and is generally
>>>> considered stable.
>>>>
>>>> By it's own recognition, however, the development community
>>>> surrounding Trac has largely dissipated, with little mailing list
>>>> traffic, and very few commits to the source code repository (see [2]).
>>>> Private efforts to engage the existing developers in implementing
>>>> features have been negatively received.  At the same time, other
>>>> individuals and companies, such as
>>>> [[http://www.wandisco.com|WANdisco]], have expressed interest in
>>>> helping continue to develop Trac.  These entities would prefer this
>>>> effort to be at a vendor-neutral location, with the clear process for
>>>> intellectual property management that comes from the Foundation.  As
>>>> such, the Apache Software Foundation feels like the best fit for this
>>>> new project based on Trac.
>>>>
>>>> == Rationale ==
>>>>
>>>> As discussed earlier, the current Trac development community is small
>>>> and reluctant to accept outside contributions.  Given the Foundation’s
>>>> reputation for building and maintaining communities, we feel a new
>>>> project, based on Trac but incubated under the Apache umbrella, would
>>>> help re-build the developer community, jump started by developer time
>>>> donated by WANdisco.  Additionally, as a developer tool, Bloodhound is
>>>> a good fit with other, similarly-focused developer tools at the ASF.
>>>>
>>>> Private discussions have shown there is some interest by third-parties
>>>> to release internal improvements to Trac, and Bloodhound gives them an
>>>> additional venue to do so.
>>>>
>>>> == Initial Goals ==
>>>>
>>>> The initial goals for Bloodhound primarily revolve around migrating
>>>> the existing code base and integrating external features to make the
>>>> project easy to deploy.  Additional ideas will of course follow, but
>>>> the following goals are sufficiently difficult to be considered early
>>>> milestones.
>>>>
>>>> Some of the initial goals include:
>>>> * Migrate the existing BSD-licensed Trac code base to the ASF.
>>>> * Attract developer and user interest in the new Bloodhound project.
>>>> * Incorporate externally developed features into the core Bloodhound project.
>>>> * Package the most popular plugins into the core project, so
>>>> installations and administration of Bloodhound becomes dead simple.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> = Current Status =
>>>>
>>>> == Meritocracy ==
>>>>
>>>> Although initially corporate-sponsored, any interested developers
>>>> would be granted commit access.  Even developers employed by the
>>>> sponsoring companies would be required to demonstrate competency to
>>>> gain commit privileges.  Individuals with corporate affiliations would
>>>> understandably be known within the community, but would not have
>>>> bearing on the granting of commit privileges.
>>>>
>>>> == Community ==
>>>>
>>>> One of the primary purposes of this proposal is to develop a strong
>>>> developer community around the Trac code base.  The current developers
>>>> and supporting institution have moved on to other things, and this has
>>>> caused stagnation in the existing community.  We want to use the
>>>> experience of the Incubator PMC, and the incubation process, to reboot
>>>> the developer community, while at the same time incorporating
>>>> oft-requested features into the existing product.
>>>>
>>>> Building communities carries with it an initial investment, and the
>>>> corporate sponsors behind this proposal are willing to make that
>>>> investment in seeing a vibrant and self-sustaining community result
>>>> from incubation.  We recognize this as something of an experiment, and
>>>> that incubation is not a guarantee of success and graduation a given.
>>>> However, we feel that the ASF represents the best opportunity to build
>>>> the vibrant community that this project needs.
>>>>
>>>> == Core Developers ==
>>>>
>>>> The initial set of developers will be primarily individuals from
>>>> WANdisco, and may be augmented with other interested persons we have
>>>> privately contacted.  This list contains at least one Apache Member,
>>>> as well as others who have participated in Apache projects in various
>>>> capacities (patch contributors, bug reports, etc.).  It also includes
>>>> people who are familiar with open source development, but have not
>>>> previously participated in Apache projects.
>>>>
>>>> Realizing that incubation is an opportunity to grow the community, we
>>>> plan to make every attempt possible to invite additional developers
>>>> from the existing Trac user and developer communities, including those
>>>> involved in plugin development.
>>>>
>>>> == Alignment ==
>>>>
>>>> Bloodhound aligns well with the Apache Software Foundation.  It makes
>>>> extensive use of Apache Subversion, and includes tools to browse and
>>>> interact with Subversion repositories.  As previously mentioned,
>>>> Bloodhound is primarily a developer-oriented tool, which follows the
>>>> historical Apache philosophy of providing high-quality developer
>>>> tools.  Eventually, Bloodhound could become a viable alternative to
>>>> Jira or Bugzilla for projects hosted at Apache.
>>>>
>>>> = Known Risks =
>>>>
>>>> This proposal is not without its risks, some of which are outlined below.
>>>>
>>>> == Orphaned Projects ==
>>>>
>>>> The current Trac project lacks much developer interest.  Although the
>>>> entities behind this proposal desire to make a viable developer
>>>> community, there is no guarantee that such a community will develop.
>>>> Should this happen, there will likely be insufficient heterogeneity in
>>>> the project to warrant graduation.
>>>>
>>>> == Inexperience with Open Source ==
>>>>
>>>> The initial groups of developers have extensive experience with open
>>>> source, primarily with the [[http://subversion.apache.org/|Apache
>>>> Subversion]] project.  The target audience for growing the developer
>>>> community is the current Trac user and developer communities, many
>>>> members of which are familiar with open source in general.  There may
>>>> be some learning curve as community members familiarize themselves
>>>> with the ASF and the Apache Way, including individuals employed
>>>> specifically to work on the project.
>>>>
>>>> == Homogeneous Developers ==
>>>>
>>>> The current list of committers are primarily from WANdisco.  One of
>>>> the key purposes of proposing Bloodhound for incubation is to
>>>> resurrect a currently-small (~3 key developers, but very few commits
>>>> per week) development community by attracting and infusing it with new
>>>> code and new individuals.  The ASF has a well-deserved reputation of
>>>> fostering and building open source communities, which makes it the
>>>> ideal location to attempt this community reboot.
>>>>
>>>> == Reliance on Salaried Developers ==
>>>>
>>>> Most of the initial committers are supported by their employers to
>>>> work on Bloodhound, and may be assigned to work on other projects in
>>>> the future.  However, the employers of these salaried individuals have
>>>> an interest in seeing Bloodhound thrive as a long-term, sustaining
>>>> project.  WANdisco understands that their employees are acting as
>>>> individuals when contributing to Apache projects, but has already
>>>> brought additional staff on board to assist with Bloodhound
>>>> development.
>>>>
>>>> == Relationship with Other Apache Projects ==
>>>>
>>>> Bloodhound integrates heavily with Apache Subversion, although that
>>>> integration is becoming more de-coupled making it possible to replace
>>>> with other version control systems. Bloodhound optionally runs on
>>>> Apache httpd.
>>>>
>>>> == An Excessive Fascination with the Apache Brand ==
>>>>
>>>> One of the primary motivators in creating the Bloodhound project as
>>>> part of the Incubator is to leverage the vendor-neutral nature of the
>>>> Apache Software Foundation.  The ASF has a strong and recognized brand
>>>> as being a leader in open source, and by hosting Bloodhound at the
>>>> Foundation, we hope to attract developers to build a viable community
>>>> for the project.
>>>>
>>>> = Initial Source =
>>>>
>>>> The original Trac code base has been under development for more than 8
>>>> years, though development has become minimal over the past 2 years.
>>>> We have sync'd the existing Trac repository, including history, and
>>>> are using it as the basis for Bloodhound.  We also plan to incorporate
>>>> appropriately-licensed plugins into the core Bloodhound system.
>>>>
>>>> == Source and Intellectual Property Submission Plan ==
>>>>
>>>> The initial source will be from the Trac repository.  Additional
>>>> functionality may come from private development, and will be folded
>>>> into the open source version after Bloodhound is loaded in the main
>>>> ASF repository.  Any relevant Trac-hacks with appropriate licenses may
>>>> also be migrated.
>>>>
>>>> == External Dependencies ==
>>>>
>>>> The bulk of the initial code will be from the Trac project, which is
>>>> licensed under the BSD license.  Bloodhound also relies upon
>>>> BSD-licensed subcomponents for HTML templating.
>>>>
>>>> = Required Resources =
>>>>
>>>> == Mailing lists ==
>>>>
>>>> The initial set of mailing lists will be:
>>>> * bloodhound-private (with moderated subscriptions)
>>>> * bloodhound-dev
>>>> * bloodhound-commits
>>>> * bloodhound-user
>>>>
>>>> == Subversion Directory ==
>>>>
>>>> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/bloodhound
>>>>
>>>> == Issue Tracking ==
>>>>
>>>> Bloodhound would like to self-host its issue tracking, see below.
>>>>
>>>> == Other Resources ==
>>>>
>>>> In the interests of eating our own dogfood, Bloodhound would like to
>>>> self-host the issue tracker and related tools. The team will work with
>>>> Infrastructure to define and manage this configuration.
>>>>
>>>> == Initial Committers ==
>>>>
>>>> * Mat Booth (mat.booth at wandisco dot com)
>>>> * Mark Poole (mark at wandisco.com)
>>>> * Hyrum Wright (hyrum.wright at wandisco dot com)
>>>> * John Chambers (john.chambers at wandisco.com)
>>>> * Gary Martin (gary.martin at wandisco.com)
>>>>
>>>> == Affiliations ==
>>>>
>>>> * Mat Booth, WANdisco
>>>> * Mark Poole, WANdisco
>>>> * Hyrum Wright, WANdisco
>>>> * John Chambers, WANdisco
>>>> * Gary Martin, WANdisco
>>>>
>>>> = Sponsors =
>>>>
>>>> == Champion ==
>>>>
>>>> Hyrum Wright
>>>>
>>>> == Nominated Mentors ==
>>>>
>>>> * Hyrum Wright
>>>> * Greg Stein
>>>>
>>>> == Sponsoring Entity ==
>>>>
>>>> The Apache Incubator
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
>> http://www.qi4j.org - New Energy for Java
>>
>> I live here; http://tinyurl.com/3xugrbk
>> I work here; http://tinyurl.com/6a2pl4j
>> I relax here; http://tinyurl.com/2cgsug
>>
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>
>
>
> --
>
> uberSVN: Apache Subversion Made Easy
> http://www.uberSVN.com/
>
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>



-- 
Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
http://www.qi4j.org - New Energy for Java

I live here; http://tinyurl.com/3xugrbk
I work here; http://tinyurl.com/6a2pl4j
I relax here; http://tinyurl.com/2cgsug

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