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From Raju Bitter <rajubit...@googlemail.com>
Subject Re: [PROPOSAL] Flex for Apache Incubator
Date Wed, 21 Dec 2011 10:06:09 GMT
Hi Alex,

Excellent, that's really good news! I agree with you, it's probably
better to keep Falcon and Apache Flex as separate projects.

It makes a lot of sense to contribute the Flex SDK as quickly as
possible to Apache, and it wouldn't be good to have the community
waiting for it.

And I fully understand that contributing an evolving product like
Falcon to Apache should be done at a point in time where the Falcon
team feels comfortable with letting community members join the
development process.

Thanks again for your detailed responses, it really helped clarify the
situation for me (and hopefully for others). I can imagine that an
Apache Flex project will be a big success, looking at the impressive
list of people willing (and waiting) to contribute to the project.

Best,

Raju

2011/12/21 Alex Harui <aharui@adobe.com>:
> Hi Raju,
>
> Yes, we hope to contribute Falcon before it is finished, but it isn't ready
> to be contributed now, and the rest of the Flex SDK is and we have a large
> group of folks eager to get started on it.
>
> There will be some overlap between folks working on Falcon and on the SDK,
> but I think the overlap is small enough that Falcon might be its own project
> or sub-project proposal to the incubator.  It is a separate code base and
> separate set of engineers in Adobe at this time.
>
> Deepa is on vacation right now, but when she returns she will be in a new
> role.  Our understanding is that there isn't much need for Product
> Management if we get accepted into the incubator.  I am pretty much the main
> point of contact with respect to Flex at Adobe and tasked with working out
> the timelines for when other Adobe source code will be contributed to
> Apache.  This is a new road for me so I'm hoping to just get the Flex SDK
> in, learn from that experience and then work with other teams like the
> Falcon team to figure out a good timeframe for proposing their source code
> that minimizes impact to their schedules yet allows those interested to get
> involved.
>
> -Alex
>
>
> On 12/20/11 6:01 PM, "Raju Bitter" <rajubitter@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
>> Alex,
>>
>> I have been watching this recording of a session in the Flex Summit a week
>> ago:
>> http://tv.adobe.com/watch/flex-community-summit-december-2011/open-discussion-
>> about-falcon-and-falconjs/
>>
>> Greg DeMichillie, Sr. Director of Product Management, and Danny
>> Winokur, VP/GM Interactive Business Unit are leading the discussion,
>> and in that discussion the conclusion seems to be that it makes sense
>> to contribute the unfinished Falcon compiler work to Apache. Falcon is
>> the next version of the ActionScript/MXML compiler for Flex, and will
>> bring performance improvements of 10 x to ActionScript compilation.
>>
>> The result of that discussion seems to be that
>> 1) The community should get access to the Falcon compiler BEFORE it
>> will be released.
>> 2) There is enough interest in the community to help Adobe finish the
>> Falcon ActionScript compiler.
>> 3) The community might be responsible for finishing the MXML ->
>> ActionScript compilation unit of Falcon.
>>
>> I'll try to reach out to Deepa Subramaniam to see if there has been a
>> decision made by now on the Falcon topic, but it might be easier for
>> you to reach out to Greg or Danny directly to see what the status is.
>> If Falcon would be contributed to Apache before the work has been
>> finished, that should be included in the proposal.
>>
>> Best,
>> Raju
>>
>> 2011/12/21 Alex Harui <aharui@adobe.com>:
>>> Responses inline:
>>>
>>>
>>> On 12/20/11 12:30 PM, "Raju Bitter" <rajubitter@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Alex,
>>>>
>>>> re-reading the proposal, a few other questions came to my mind:
>>>>
>>>> 1) Flash Player SDK
>>>> What are you referring to, when listing the "Adobe Flash Player SDK"
>>>> under "External Dependencies". The Adobe website says:
>>>> http://www.adobe.com/products/flashplayer_sdk/
>>>> "Sorry, page not available", and then:
>>>>> As of October 1, 2007, the Macromedia® Flash® Player 7 SDK will no
>>>>> longer be available. The migration path for the Flash Player 7 SDK
>>>>> is Adobe® Flash Lite  3.
>>>>> The Adobe Flash Lite 3 runtime provides mobile and consumer electronics
>>>>> device manufacturers the ability to deliver the most engaging mobile
>>>>> experiences  across devices.
>>>> Does the Flash Player SDK still exist as a product?
>>> I guess not.  The main thing we need is a file called playerglobal.swc which
>>> is on the FlashPlayer downloads page.  I had seen it referenced as the Flash
>>> Player SDK at one time, but it looks like that is no longer true.  I will
>>> double-check and then update the proposal.
>>>>
>>>> 2) Action Script Virtual Machine (AVM)
>>>> In November 2006 Adobe open source the Flash Player Script engine:
>>>> http://www.mozilla.org/en-US/press/mozilla-2006-11-07.html
>>>> Is the source code of Tamarin still the current version of the Action
>>>> Script Virtual Machine in Flash Player 11? If there is a new version of
>>>> the AVM (2+), will that be contributed to the Apache Software Foundation
>>>> as well?
>>>>
>>>> It doesn't really make sense to only contribute a compiler, if there is
>>>> no open source implementation of a runtime/scripting engine available,
>>>> but that might only be my personal view. If the community would decide
>>>> to create a an open standards based runtime for Flex, would that mean
>>>> the community would have to start from zero?
>>> This proposal is about Adobe Flex which is separate from Tamarin.  And
>>> separate from the future of Tamarin.  I cannot speak to anything related to
>>> Tamarin.
>>>>
>>>> 3) Commercial support for Apache Flex
>>>> Does Adobe plan to offer support for an Apache Flex product? If yes,
>>>> what kind of support would be planned. I read somewhere that Adobe will
>>>> not offer any support for Flex 4.6+ to new customers, but I'm not sure,
>>>> if that's still the current plan.
>>> Adobe is not currently planning to offer support for Flex released from
>>> Apache, but that could change.
>>>>
>>>> 4) Flash Player
>>>> Are there any plans to open source a stripped-down version of Flash
>>>> Player, e.g. the discontinued version of Flash Player for mobile) in the
>>>> future (similar to the pure open source Flex SDK vs. the commercial
>>>> SDK)? The Apache community could continue working on a browser-based
>>>> mobile runtime for Apache Flex, if that was the case.
>>> This proposal is about Adobe Flex which, while it runs in the Flash Player,
>>> is separate from the Flash Player.  I cannot speak to any plans related to
>>> the Flash Player.
>>>>
>>>> I hope I don't sound to skeptical here, but Adobe Flex is quite
>>>> different from most Apache projects I've been in contact with. It's a
>>>> powerful compiler with an interesting language, but it looks like the
>>>> output of the compiler can only be used with Adobe-owned proprietary
>>>> software at the moment.
>>> This proposal is about Adobe Flex which in my mind is largely the
>>> ActionScript source code that forms a framework that enables folks to easily
>>> and quickly produce useful applications.  The compiler source we are
>>> donating in this proposal is actually being superceded by a whole new
>>> compiler code base in a project at Adobe called Falcon that will likely be
>>> donated to Apache later.  Given that Tamarin is open source and the SWF file
>>> format is public, I don't think there is much to stop someone else from
>>> creating their own SWF player.  So while the current reality is that these
>>> SWFs only run in Adobe-owned players, I don't think there is a technical
>>> reason for it.
>>>>
>>>> Raju
>>>>
>>>>> Hi everyone,
>>>>>
>>>>> I would like to propose Flex to be an Apache Incubator project.
>>>>>
>>>>> Here's a link to the proposal:
>>>>> http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/FlexProposal
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>
>>>>> Alex Harui
>>>>> Flex SDK Team
>>>>> Adobe Systems, Inc.
>>>>> http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Alex Harui
>>> Flex SDK Team
>>> Adobe Systems, Inc.
>>> http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> Alex Harui
> Flex SDK Team
> Adobe Systems, Inc.
> http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui
>



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Raju Bitter | Software Architect
cell: +49 (0) 176 322 011 96
fax: +49 (0) 8821 68 69 08 29
email: rajubitter@googlemail.com
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