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From Raju Bitter <rajubit...@googlemail.com>
Subject Re: [PROPOSAL] Flex for Apache Incubator
Date Tue, 20 Dec 2011 22:31:58 GMT
Thanks for that information, Carol!

Based on this blog post on the Flex Summit it sounded like the company
made an announcement on support contracts there:
http://www.peterelst.com/blog/2011/12/13/flex-summit-updates-on-the-open-source-strategy-and-runtimes/

Thanks again,
Raju

2011/12/20 Carol Frampton <cframpto@adobe.com>:
> Raju,
>
> I believe Adobe is selling support contracts for Adobe Flex version 4.6.
>
> Apache Flex, although initially the same codebase as Adobe Flex 4.6, would
> be a different product.  The community can take it in whatever direction
> it would like to go.
>
> Carol
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Raju Bitter <rajubitter@googlemail.com>
> Reply-To: "rajubitter@gmail.com" <rajubitter@gmail.com>
> Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 13:49:13 -0800
> To: "general@incubator.apache.org" <general@incubator.apache.org>
> Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] Flex for Apache Incubator
>
>>Thanks for the quick response, Greg!
>>
>>On 12/20/11 9:37 PM, Greg Stein wrote:
>>> On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 15:30, Raju Bitter<rajubitter@googlemail.com>
>>>wrote:
>>>> ...
>>>> 2) Action Script Virtual Machine (AVM)
>>>> In November 2006 Adobe open source the Flash Player Script engine:
>>>> http://www.mozilla.org/en-US/press/mozilla-2006-11-07.html
>>>> Is the source code of Tamarin still the current version of the Action
>>>>Script
>>>> Virtual Machine in Flash Player 11? If there is a new version of the
>>>>AVM
>>>> (2+), will that be contributed to the Apache Software Foundation as
>>>>well?
>>>>
>>>> It doesn't really make sense to only contribute a compiler, if there
>>>>is no
>>>> open source implementation of a runtime/scripting engine available,
>>>>but that
>>>> might only be my personal view. If the community would decide to
>>>>create a an
>>>> open standards based runtime for Flex, would that mean the community
>>>>would
>>>> have to start from zero?
>>>
>>> I think that's just your personal view :-)
>>That's true, but still would be good to have an open source, up-to-date
>>scripting engine for ActionScript bytecode to enable other future
>>runtimes (imagine running the same ActionScript 3 code in the client and
>>on the server, like node.js). Therefore it would be very valuable to
>>know if Tamarin is still compatible with the scripting engine Flash
>>Player 11.
>>
>>> There is a ton of open source code written to work against Oracle's
>>> RDBMS, or Windows' .NET runtime, or Apple's iOS. I see no problem with
>>> Apache Flex targeting a proprietary environment.
>>I'm not sure which projects you are talking about: .NET runtime should
>>be compatible to Mono,
>>
>>>> 3) Commercial support for Apache Flex
>>>> Does Adobe plan to offer support for an Apache Flex product? If yes,
>>>>what
>>>> kind of support would be planned. I read somewhere that Adobe will not
>>>>offer
>>>> any support for Flex 4.6+ to new customers, but I'm not sure, if that's
>>>> still the current plan.
>>>
>>> I think this is orthogonal/unrelated to the Apache Flex proposal.
>>I think it is related to the proposal. If Adobe has binding contracts
>>for future versions of Flex, and the Apache community would decide to
>>change Apache Flex 4.7 implementation details, Adobe might be forced to
>>fork the project for customers. How would that work?
>>
>>>> 4) Flash Player
>>>> Are there any plans to open source a stripped-down version of Flash
>>>>Player,
>>>> e.g. the discontinued version of Flash Player for mobile) in the future
>>>> (similar to the pure open source Flex SDK vs. the commercial SDK)? The
>>>> Apache community could continue working on a browser-based mobile
>>>>runtime
>>>> for Apache Flex, if that was the case.
>>>
>>> Likewise.
>>Isn't it a valid question to ask which runtimes will be available for a
>>a framework with compiler? To be technically correct, Flex applications
>>WON'T run in mobile browsers without a Flash Player (which means you
>>won't see a Flex application on iOS). You CAN compile a Flex application
>>into a mobile application using the Adobe AIR SDK and the Adobe AIR
>>player. The proposal mentions rich Internet applications running in
>>desktop and mobile browsers. Elsewhere iOS is mentioned. As we all know,
>>Flash applications (SWF files) cannot be rendered in iOS browser.
>>Therefore the question if there will be a way run mobile Flex
>>applications in mobile browsers as rich Internet applications (versus
>>native apps) is very valid in my eyes.
>>
>>>
>>>> I hope I don't sound to skeptical here, but Adobe Flex is quite
>>>>different
>>>> from most Apache projects I've been in contact with. It's a powerful
>>>> compiler with an interesting language, but it looks like the output of
>>>>the
>>>> compiler can only be used with Adobe-owned proprietary software at the
>>>> moment.
>>>
>>> As I mentioned above, I don't see this as a problem whatsoever. And
>>> even if *some* people have a problem with it, there is a huge
>>> committer list of people who obviously have zero problem with that
>>> fact. The Foundation is here to provide support to communities, rather
>>> than block them on philosophical rationales. (IMO :-) So if a
>>> community wants to build up around Apache Flex, then we do what we can
>>> to help them.
>>I've been using Flash for the past 8 years in projects, organized Flex
>>User Group meetings, co-organized events with Adobe. I have a good
>>understanding of what Flash, ActionScript and AIR are capable off, how
>>many people are using Flash, how useful it can be.
>>
>>But none of the companies offering RIA related products and players in
>>the past 7 years (Adobe, Microsoft, Sun, Oracle, to name the big ones)
>>has not been affected by strategy changes of the management, often
>>leaving developers and clients in positions which were less optimal.
>>(Adobe Flex 1.5 -> 2.0 changes, differences in Silverlight APIs with
>>major version upgrades, Sun/Oracle dumping JavaFX Script, Microsoft's
>>decision to favor HTML5 over Silverlight).
>>
>>Adobe decided to discontinue development of Flash Player for mobile
>>devices and smart TVs (it's a company decision, we have to respect
>>that, but it wasn't easy for large number of people to hear those
>>news). If they would decide to discontinue the desktop version of
>>Flash Player, wouldn't it be good if the community would have an
>>alternative runtime prepared already? I believe it is in the interest
>>of the Apache Flex community to have an alternative runtime for Flex
>>in the not-too-far future, and if Adobe would express support of that
>>goal , it would be very valuable.
>>
>>The proposal might have a sentence saying: "Adobe will provide the
>>Apache community with the technical information needed to develop
>>additional runtimes for Flex." Would that be acceptable?
>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> -g
>>
>>Thanks again for you comments!
>>
>>Raju
>>
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>>
>



-- 
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Raju Bitter | Software Architect
cell: +49 (0) 176 322 011 96
fax: +49 (0) 8821 68 69 08 29
email: rajubitter@googlemail.com
Germany

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