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Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 14:01:34 -0500
Message-ID: 
 <CALhtWkfTnT4H7QBnAWFKATeETckw=xymDwYc5JMJ6+P-4XFo=w@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: should podlings have informal chairs?
From: Benson Margulies <bimargulies@gmail.com>
To: general@incubator.apache.org, Joe Schaefer <joe_schaefer@yahoo.com>
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On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 1:55 PM, Joe Schaefer <joe_schaefer@yahoo.com> wrot=
e:
> Well its a little confusing to expect anyone other than a mentor
> to shepherd a project- the corresponding "shepherd" at the TLP level
> is a board member responsible for interfacing between the board
> and the project on any action items post-board-meeting.
>
>
> I suggest we get back to figuring out exactly what problem we are
> trying to solve before we start looking for appropriate labels to
> attach to the role(s) we need.

+1

What have we got here? My personal view:

a) mentors AWOL
b) Measurable quantities of ignorance of ASF policies that are
supposed to be the fundamental invariants of what we do.
c) A Podling release voted up that later lead to 'I'm shocked,
shocked, to discover gambling going on' reactions from other iPMC
members at a graduation vote.
d) A PMC so large as to be inevitably incoherent as a body that sets
policy and makes decisions.

My tentative view is that there is a structural issue here: the
incubator PMC should not expand to accomodate all mentors. Its members
should all feel responsibility for supervision of all podlings, and
would need to figure out a way to scale that supervision other than
being a creature of 100 legs and no head.

>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: sebb <sebbaz@gmail.com>
>> To: general@incubator.apache.org
>> Cc:
>> Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 1:49 PM
>> Subject: Re: should podlings have informal chairs?
>>
>> On 21 November 2011 18:22, Scott Deboy <scott.deboy@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> =C2=A0What about getting rid of the word 'champion'? =C2=A0Seems like t=
here
>> are two
>>> =C2=A0roles: the Member(s) which backed the proposal to enter the incub=
ator, and
>>> =C2=A0a Coordinator.
>>
>> I think Champion is a good name, especially for the pre-podling phase.
>>
>> Seems to me it often takes more than a mere Coordinator to ensure that
>> the proposal reaches the vote to accept a podling.
>>
>> For the current issue - ensuring podlings don't get lost on the way to
>> graduation - maybe a "shepherd" is needed.
>>
>> But I still think the original Champion could be tasked with the role.
>> If they were keep enough to act as Champion to ensure that the project
>> was accepted as a podling, one would hope they would be keen to ensure
>> that the podling eventually graduates.
>>
>>> =C2=A0Scott
>>>
>>> =C2=A0On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 9:06 AM, Ross Gardler
>> <rgardler@opendirective.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> =C2=A0On 21 November 2011 16:47, Joe Schaefer <joe_schaefer@yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>>>> =C2=A0> Personally I am against the idea of picking a chair
>>>> =C2=A0> for a podling early.
>>>>
>>>> =C2=A0That's not the proposal, although it was suggested and I believe
>>>> =C2=A0rejected (for reasons similar to the ones you gave), at least I'=
ve
>> not
>>>> =C2=A0seen any support for it.
>>>>
>>>> =C2=A0The proposal is as the subject says "an informal chair". The
>> name
>>>> =C2=A0seems to have moved to champion in order to avoid any impression=
 of
>>>> =C2=A0leadership.
>>>>
>>>> =C2=A0The responsibilities would be to the Incubator PMC to ensure tha=
t the
>>>> =C2=A0project is progressing rather than struggling with busy elsewher=
e or
>>>> =C2=A0inactive mentors.
>>>>
>>>> =C2=A0Does your concern extend to this role?
>>>>
>>>> =C2=A0Ross
>>>>
>>>> =C2=A0----------------------------------------------------------------=
-----
>>>> =C2=A0To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
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rg
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
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