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From Chris Hostetter <>
Subject Re: should podlings have informal chairs?
Date Wed, 23 Nov 2011 20:11:06 GMT

: >  * Umbrella Projects add a layer of indirection that make it hard for the
: > board to know when there are problems in the individual (sub/leaf)
: > projects.
: >
: >  * The Board needs regular status updates on all the projects in the ASF
: > (where podlings are considered projects)
: Podlings are not ASF projects. The Incubator is the ASF project.

A rose by any other name...

If you are going to argue that a podling is by definition "not a project", 
and therefore does not need direct board oversight, then why can't some 
other "Apache Foo" act as an Umbrealla above some other large set of "not 
a projects" ?  Each "not a project" under Apache Foo could have a distinct 
sets of committers, and distinct mailing lists mailing lists, and does 
releases where at least three Foo PMC members vote, etc.... And then the 
"Apache Foo" PMC would prepare board reports summarizing the important 
things they thought the Board should know about of the various "not a 
projects" under Apache Foo, but leaving out details they didn't think the 
baord needed to worry about.

By your argument, that would be fine ... but by all accounts i've heard, 
that is "not ok".

: The question is therefore whether or not our concern over umbrella
: projects extends to the Incubator (in which case we should already be
: worried about it), or whether the board can safely delegate podling
: oversight to the IPMC.

The only reason i've ever heard why the Incubator is "ok" to violate the 
"No Umbrella Projects" mantra is specificly because the IPMC does not in 
any way sheild/summarize/condense the reports from the "not a projects" 
under it when reporting to the board.  Hence the basis of my question: If 
the IPMC is going to start creating Board Reports that are not a 
superset of the union of all podling reports, how will it not become the 
Umbrealla project feared by all (who fear umbrella projects) ?


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