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From Ross Gardler <>
Subject Re: [PROPOSAL] Clarify the role of the Champion as an "incubation coordinator" (was: should podlings have informal chairs?)
Date Thu, 24 Nov 2011 17:34:13 GMT
On 24 November 2011 17:17, Dennis E. Hamilton <> wrote:
> My apologies for the diversion.  I should not have said anything about my direct knowledge
of a champion being an IPMC member or not.  Whether I knew that or not was irrelevant to
the point I wanted to make, which is now evidently lost.
> 1. I find value in the idea of the original champion continuing as a champion over the
life of the PPMC (unless replaced) and serving as a mentor of the mentors.
> 2. I do not find value in that role being taken over by a non-mentor PPMC member because
of the hazards already mentioned and because a champion has karma that PPMC members do not.
 Losing such a resource (and a go-to person when mentor-support is MIA, and vice versa) strikes
me as too costly/risky.  Also, it strikes me as important that a graduatable PPMC not have
any indispensable members.  One way to ensure that is to keep the responsibilities diffuse
and also accounted for.

The project will still have mentors who each have the required karma.

Currently the champion is not a got-to-person when mentors are missing
(you are arguably lucky in OOo, you have a number of very active and
engaged mentors, there are some projects with none). If mentors a MIA
then the go-to-person today is the general@ list. So this proposal
does not affect the status quo in this situation.

Finally, let me assure you that in a healthy project (i.e. one ready
to graduate) there are no indespensible people. A Champion is *just*
an analogue of a PMC chair. PMC chairs do not have any additional
ability over and above PMC members, they have additional
responsibilities, but not capabilities. A good champion/chair will be
ensuring the PMC is *collectively* capable of carrying out its duties.
A good PMC chair/champion makes it her business to be dispensable.


>  - Dennis
> -----Original Message-----
> From: sebb []
> Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 02:08
> To:
> Cc:
> Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] Clarify the role of the Champion as an "incubation coordinator"
(was: should podlings have informal chairs?)
> On 24 November 2011 03:29, Sam Ruby <> wrote:
>> On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 6:12 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton
>> <> wrote:
>>> I'm sorry.  I did not mean to suggest that the champion of the PPMC of which
I am a member is any of those cases.  I'm certain our champion is an ASF Member.  I haven't
checked to see if the champion is a member of the IPMC, though I wouldn't be surprised.
>> You (as a committer) can verify that for yourself by looking here:
> Or consult the public
> which *should* be the same (it's the LDAP committee list for incubator).
>>> I was not speaking on behalf of champions being elected at all.  The case in
my experience is where a champion continued championing after the podling was established.
>>>  - Dennis
>> - Sam Ruby
> [ ... ]
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Ross Gardler (@rgardler)
Programme Leader (Open Development)

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