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From Ross Gardler <>
Subject Re: should podlings have informal chairs?
Date Thu, 24 Nov 2011 12:10:29 GMT
On 23 November 2011 20:11, Chris Hostetter <> wrote:
> : >  * Umbrella Projects add a layer of indirection that make it hard for the
> : > board to know when there are problems in the individual (sub/leaf)
> : > projects.
> : >
> : >  * The Board needs regular status updates on all the projects in the ASF
> : > (where podlings are considered projects)
> :
> : Podlings are not ASF projects. The Incubator is the ASF project.
> A rose by any other name...
> If you are going to argue that a podling is by definition "not a project",
> and therefore does not need direct board oversight, then why can't some
> other "Apache Foo" act as an Umbrealla above some other large set of "not
> a projects" ?

Because sub-projects in Apache Foo can make independent releases using
the Apache brand. Incubator podlings do not.

> By your argument, that would be fine ... but by all accounts i've heard,
> that is "not ok".

No, I do not agree that my argument supports the logic you describe.
Despite this, I agree your question, as formulated below is a valid
one, and I'd like to hear opinions on it.

> : The question is therefore whether or not our concern over umbrella
> : projects extends to the Incubator (in which case we should already be
> : worried about it), or whether the board can safely delegate podling
> : oversight to the IPMC.
> The only reason i've ever heard why the Incubator is "ok" to violate the
> "No Umbrella Projects" mantra is specificly because the IPMC does not in
> any way sheild/summarize/condense the reports from the "not a projects"
> under it when reporting to the board.  Hence the basis of my question: If
> the IPMC is going to start creating Board Reports that are not a
> superset of the union of all podling reports, how will it not become the
> Umbrealla project feared by all (who fear umbrella projects) ?

(as for "who fear umbrella projects" I can answer that - anyone who
was around to watch, or was involved with, the problems of the
Jakarata umbrella)


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