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From Ross Gardler <>
Subject Re: should podlings have informal chairs?
Date Wed, 23 Nov 2011 13:35:59 GMT
On 22 November 2011 03:50, Chris Hostetter <> wrote:
> : We should be reporting to the board about OUR work, not the work of
> : the podlings.  Podlings should only be brought in for a few specific
> : examplesto mention.  That's the first thing to correct.
> While I generally agree with everything you suggest, your entire premise
> seems to be in direct conflict with everything that I've ever seen/heard
> brought up regarding the point of Board Reports and the argument against
> "Umbrella Projects" -- notably ....

I also share your concern here (see my earlier post), however...

>  * Umbrella Projects add a layer of indirection that make it hard for the
> board to know when there are problems in the individual (sub/leaf)
> projects.
>  * The Board needs regular status updates on all the projects in the ASF
> (where podlings are considered projects)

Podlings are not ASF projects. The Incubator is the ASF project.

The question is therefore whether or not our concern over umbrella
projects extends to the Incubator (in which case we should already be
worried about it), or whether the board can safely delegate podling
oversight to the IPMC.

If this is a concern then would it make sense for one of the reviewers
for the IPMC to also be a board member?

> just makes
> me wonder if that means there should be some re-consideration of the
> Umbrella rule in general -- Because another way to help scale the
> governance of the ASF as a whole would be to add some Umbrella management
> for groups of projects that have a lot of overlap)

I don't see that as a sensible path and I certainly don't see it as
the natural path this proposal is taking us down.

The ASF is scaling OK, it's the Incubator that (arguably) isn't doing so.


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