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From Marvin Humphrey <>
Subject Re: [PROPOSAL] Clarify the role of the Champion as an "incubation coordinator" (was: should podlings have informal chairs?)
Date Wed, 23 Nov 2011 00:15:54 GMT
On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 11:28:06PM +0100, Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 10:59 PM, Benson Margulies
> <> wrote:
> > ...2) We redefine the term Champion to be a sort of meta-mentor who,
> > somehow, watches out for bears or missing mentors without necessarily
> > getting deeply involved...
> That's exactly what I'm suggesting.

The word "champion" doesn't seem to describe this new role precisely.  A
"champion" is someone who fights on your behalf -- in the context of a new
podling vouching for it before the skeptical IPMC membership and serving as
spokesperson during the proposal phase.  The word "champion" doesn't
necessarily imply "meta-mentor", which is perhaps one reason why not all
Champions continue on in that role (with notable exceptions) after the
proposal phase concludes and incubation begins.

> > ...As far as I'm concerned, the original role of Champion is fairly silly
> > and symbolic, and any ASF member can help a podling make a proposal to
> > the incubator....
> I wouldn't say silly, it is reassuring for a new podling to have
> someone help with their initial interactions with the ASF.

Also, it is difficult to craft a sensible proposal without the assistance of
someone who is very knowledgable about Apache, e.g. an ASF Member.
> But as you say that role evaporates once the project starts, so it
> seems to make sense to give more meaning to it, considering that that
> fills some existing gaps.

To synthesize several other suggestions:

Perhaps the Incubator can require that an incoming podling have a PVP (Podling
Vice President) who must be an ASF Member at the time of the proposal.  That
individual will be responsible for reporting, just as the eventual VP of a
top-level project would be.

At any time during incubation, the podling may elect a new PVP; subsequent
PVPs need not be ASF Members.  The PVP at the time of graduation will be the
obvious choice for project VP, though selection wouldn't be automatic since
the VP is named in the Board Resolution.

By requiring that a proposed podling still have an ASF Member attached to it,
we ensure that candidates for incubation continue to have access to the
resources that the Champion currently provides in advance of submitting their

However, this PVP also assumes new responsibilities after incubation starts
which are currently going untended.

Marvin Humphrey

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