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From Joe Schaefer <joe_schae...@yahoo.com>
Subject Re: should podlings have informal chairs?
Date Mon, 21 Nov 2011 19:11:49 GMT
Add this item for discussion then:

* currently the board is overloaded with parsing and processing the IPMC
monthly reports, and would like to delegate most of that review to the

the IPMC chair, who should figure out how to delegate that to the IPMC
membership, who should figure out how to promote effective reviewers to
the IPMC, and deprecate the IPMC membership of awol mentors (my pet issue).




----- Original Message -----
> From: Benson Margulies <bimargulies@gmail.com>
> To: general@incubator.apache.org; Joe Schaefer <joe_schaefer@yahoo.com>
> Cc: 
> Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 2:01 PM
> Subject: Re: should podlings have informal chairs?
> 
> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 1:55 PM, Joe Schaefer <joe_schaefer@yahoo.com> 
> wrote:
>>  Well its a little confusing to expect anyone other than a mentor
>>  to shepherd a project- the corresponding "shepherd" at the TLP 
> level
>>  is a board member responsible for interfacing between the board
>>  and the project on any action items post-board-meeting.
>> 
>> 
>>  I suggest we get back to figuring out exactly what problem we are
>>  trying to solve before we start looking for appropriate labels to
>>  attach to the role(s) we need.
> 
> +1
> 
> What have we got here? My personal view:
> 
> a) mentors AWOL
> b) Measurable quantities of ignorance of ASF policies that are
> supposed to be the fundamental invariants of what we do.
> c) A Podling release voted up that later lead to 'I'm shocked,
> shocked, to discover gambling going on' reactions from other iPMC
> members at a graduation vote.
> d) A PMC so large as to be inevitably incoherent as a body that sets
> policy and makes decisions.
> 
> My tentative view is that there is a structural issue here: the
> incubator PMC should not expand to accomodate all mentors. Its members
> should all feel responsibility for supervision of all podlings, and
> would need to figure out a way to scale that supervision other than
> being a creature of 100 legs and no head.
> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>  ----- Original Message -----
>>>  From: sebb <sebbaz@gmail.com>
>>>  To: general@incubator.apache.org
>>>  Cc:
>>>  Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 1:49 PM
>>>  Subject: Re: should podlings have informal chairs?
>>> 
>>>  On 21 November 2011 18:22, Scott Deboy <scott.deboy@gmail.com> 
> wrote:
>>>>   What about getting rid of the word 'champion'?  Seems like 
> there
>>>  are two
>>>>   roles: the Member(s) which backed the proposal to enter the 
> incubator, and
>>>>   a Coordinator.
>>> 
>>>  I think Champion is a good name, especially for the pre-podling phase.
>>> 
>>>  Seems to me it often takes more than a mere Coordinator to ensure that
>>>  the proposal reaches the vote to accept a podling.
>>> 
>>>  For the current issue - ensuring podlings don't get lost on the way 
> to
>>>  graduation - maybe a "shepherd" is needed.
>>> 
>>>  But I still think the original Champion could be tasked with the role.
>>>  If they were keep enough to act as Champion to ensure that the project
>>>  was accepted as a podling, one would hope they would be keen to ensure
>>>  that the podling eventually graduates.
>>> 
>>>>   Scott
>>>> 
>>>>   On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 9:06 AM, Ross Gardler
>>>  <rgardler@opendirective.com>wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>>   On 21 November 2011 16:47, Joe Schaefer 
> <joe_schaefer@yahoo.com>
>>>  wrote:
>>>>>   > Personally I am against the idea of picking a chair
>>>>>   > for a podling early.
>>>>> 
>>>>>   That's not the proposal, although it was suggested and I 
> believe
>>>>>   rejected (for reasons similar to the ones you gave), at least 
> I've
>>>  not
>>>>>   seen any support for it.
>>>>> 
>>>>>   The proposal is as the subject says "an informal 
> chair". The
>>>  name
>>>>>   seems to have moved to champion in order to avoid any 
> impression of
>>>>>   leadership.
>>>>> 
>>>>>   The responsibilities would be to the Incubator PMC to ensure 
> that the
>>>>>   project is progressing rather than struggling with busy 
> elsewhere or
>>>>>   inactive mentors.
>>>>> 
>>>>>   Does your concern extend to this role?
>>>>> 
>>>>>   Ross
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
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>>>> 
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>> 
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