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From Rainer Döbele <>
Subject re: [DISCUSS] Graduating empire?
Date Sun, 30 Oct 2011 13:11:56 GMT
Hi all,

thanks Jukka for your view on this issue and thank you Benson for bringing this topic up.

I am one of the Empire-db committers and certainly we would appreciate it very much if there
is a way for us to graduate.
It is true that we are a small community of around 5 regularly active committers but at least
we're divers (i.e. non related and regionally distributed) and as far as we can tell from
our mailing lists, it looks as there are a number of users who appriciate our work as they
ask questions and give us positive feedback.
Personally I would find it very sad if we would not be able to continue staying with the ASF
as we kind of feel at home here and everything we do is done the Apache way. The one thing
we have failed, is to advertise and market our project better. As we all have our jobs to
do and no (time) sponsor for this we always rather spent our time improving the code rather
than working on marekting - and to be honest, being software developers marketing is not really
our core competence. I would not be surprised if other projects in the incubator would have
similar problems.

Certainly there is no way for us to compete with projects like Subversion or Open Office and
there is no way for us to ever get there.
But I hope that it is not only size that matters.


> from: Jukka Zitting []
> to:
> re: Re: [DISCUSS] Graduating empire?
> Hi,
> On Sun, Oct 30, 2011 at 12:38 PM, Benson Margulies
> <> wrote:
> > Thoughts?
> AFAICT this problem is pretty common in many long-term podlings. They
> have the seeds for becoming large, sustainable TLPs, but for one reason or
> another haven't been able to grow their communities to meet our diversity
> requirements. Currently such projects are caught in a bind, unable to
> graduate but also unwilling to leave the ASF for another home.
> To me this suggests that our current three state transitions [1] from the
> podling phase -- termination, continuation and graduation -- may need some
> adjustment. That could mean introducing new exit strategies or relaxing the
> existing ones. In any case it seems like a good idea to impose some sort of
> soft time limit on the continuation strategy.
> [1]
> BR,
> Jukka Zitting
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