From general-return-31329-apmail-incubator-general-archive=incubator.apache.org@incubator.apache.org Wed Sep 7 01:56:57 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: apmail-incubator-general-archive@www.apache.org Delivered-To: apmail-incubator-general-archive@www.apache.org Received: from mail.apache.org (hermes.apache.org [140.211.11.3]) by minotaur.apache.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 32D817FFF for ; Wed, 7 Sep 2011 01:56:57 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 8269 invoked by uid 500); 7 Sep 2011 01:56:56 -0000 Delivered-To: apmail-incubator-general-archive@incubator.apache.org Received: (qmail 7891 invoked by uid 500); 7 Sep 2011 01:56:55 -0000 Mailing-List: contact general-help@incubator.apache.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Post: List-Id: Reply-To: general@incubator.apache.org Delivered-To: mailing list general@incubator.apache.org Received: (qmail 7883 invoked by uid 99); 7 Sep 2011 01:56:55 -0000 Received: from athena.apache.org (HELO athena.apache.org) (140.211.11.136) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Wed, 07 Sep 2011 01:56:54 +0000 X-ASF-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.7 required=5.0 tests=SPF_NEUTRAL X-Spam-Check-By: apache.org Received-SPF: neutral (athena.apache.org: local policy) Received: from [69.18.222.47] (HELO smtp1.4emm.com) (69.18.222.47) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Wed, 07 Sep 2011 01:56:49 +0000 Received: from EX2K7VS03.4emm.local ([192.168.160.203]) by HUB01.4emm.local ([192.168.161.132]) with mapi; Tue, 6 Sep 2011 21:56:27 -0400 From: Doug Meil To: "general@incubator.apache.org" , Joe Schaefer Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2011 21:56:24 -0400 Subject: Re: Accumulo incubator proposal: Statement of Concern Thread-Topic: Accumulo incubator proposal: Statement of Concern Thread-Index: AcxtAVq2YfhISPVWRf2UgmegbGKIxA== Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <1315356367.49271.YahooMailNeo@web161421.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.12.0.110505 acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Re: "Highlander" Greatest movie ever. re: "Webservers" This is a good point, but a closer inspection of the webservers shows that the situation is quite different from Accumulo vs. HBase. Apache WS is in implemented in C, and Tomcat is implemented in Java. Accumulo is, effectively, trying to be "Timdog" - by being the 3rd webserver that is just like Tomcat, and in fact borrows some of the code from Tomcat (another issue, but point of fact true) and also claims to have a "community relationship" with Tomcat (which nobody in the HBase community has seen). On 9/6/11 8:46 PM, "Joe Schaefer" wrote: >The ASF is not Highlander. If we're big enough >to host a few different webservers, we're big enough >for 2 "HBase" projects. > > > > >>________________________________ >>From: Doug Meil >>To: "general@incubator.apache.org" >>Sent: Tuesday, September 6, 2011 8:06 PM >>Subject: Accumulo incubator proposal: Statement of Concern >> >> >>I am writing to state my concerns with the Accumulo Incubator proposal, >>the HBase copy/clone. >> >>1) =B3Accumulo has been in development since spring 2008.=B2 >> >>I don=B9t fault anybody for being scared of HBase in 2008 =AD you=B9d hav= e to >>be pretty brave to use it then. HBase 0.20 was the first release to get >>wide adoption and that came out in the fall of 2009. That said, the >>fall of 2009 was two years ago. >> >>2) =B3Some of the desired features of Accumulo could be incorporated int= o >>HBase, however the most important of these may be unlikely to be adopted >>(see cell-level access labels and iterators below)=B2 >> >>The proposal claims that the most important features =B3may be unlikely t= o >>be adopted=B2 by HBase. Really?? How do the Accumulo developers know >>this? >> >>Not a single request was made either in dist-list or Jira form to the >>HBase community regarding these requested features. Why is open >>communication such a problem? Remember that Accumulo had 2 years to put >>together such a request. For a project trying to achieve the exact same >>goals as HBase, this is not a minor issue. >> >>The past is unfortunately the best predictor of futureperformance, and >>while excuses have been made about sharing code and communication being >>=B3hard=B2 for the employer of the majority of the Accumulo developers, t= he >>lack of open-ness for an ASF project is a non-starter. For example, the >>HBase team received a recent finger-wag when the project committers >>voted on a new logo (i.e., instead of letting the entire community >>vote). This somewhat humorous infraction does prove the point: >>open-ness is required at all levels. >> >>HBase has, for years, demonstrated this principle through public feature >>requests, public bug reports, public code reviews, and public dist-list >>conversations on every conceivable issue. Based on past performance, I >>don=B9t see Accumulo, or the developers behind Accumulo, being able to >>make the cut in this respect. >> >>3) =B3 =3D=3D=3D Apache Brand =3D=3D=3D > Our interest in releasing this= code as an >>Apache incubator project is due to its strong relationship with other >>Apache projects, i.e. Hadoop, Zookeeper, and HBase=B2 >> >>Regarding =B3strong relationship=B2 see point #2 about on non-communicati= on >>over the last few years. >> >>Side-bar conversations with a Hadoop developer or two do not count as >>=B3community communication.=B2 >> >>4) In Summary >> >>If Accumulo wishes to be an open-source project, so be it - but put it >>on Google Code, SourceForge, or Github. There are plenty of places. >>But I don=B9t think it belongs in ASF. >> >>I=B9m sure that other developers may have some comments about copied HBas= e >>and Hadoop code, but I=B9ll leave that to them. >> >>Sincerely, >> >>Doug Meil >> >> >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org