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From "seba.wagner@gmail.com" <seba.wag...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: [PROPOSAL] Apache OpenMeetings incubator for Web Conferencing
Date Fri, 12 Aug 2011 07:22:02 GMT
Yes,

the Java Servlet Spec 3.0 also contains methods for push mechanisms. We
could already use similar technologies for pushing data packets around.

However there is zero support for *real* streaming in the JavaScript world.
RTMP is not just about pushing some messages around, it is about streaming,
buffering ... and there is no equivalent for doing that in HTML5. So you
will hardly have the chance to build a web-conferencing with 100% JavaScript
and no external plugins.

The only at least acceptable solution might be using a Java-Applet/JNLP to
do the necessary multimedia part, that way you have at least full control
about it and are not forced to use a "black-box" like Adobe Flash or
Silverlight and still people don't need to install anything. However
implementing a cross-platform Java-Applet/Webstart-App that accesses the
Webcam/Microphone on any device is also not that trivial. Once the so
produced stream reaches the server you might be able that users can use the
HTML5-video tag to watch it.

Sebastian

2011/8/11 Kalle Korhonen <kalle.o.korhonen@gmail.com>

> 2011/8/11 seba.wagner@gmail.com <seba.wagner@gmail.com>:
> > I have updated the Proposal to be more clear on the external dependencies
> > and possibilities to move away from them:
> >
> http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/OpenmeetingsProposal#External_Dependencies
>
> From the sidelines, WebSockets would seem like a strong contender to
> replace RTMP. GlassFish's Atmosphere is under CDDL (which is allowed
> as appropriately labeled).
>
> Kalle
>
>
> > 2011/8/11 Jim Jagielski <jim@jagunet.com>
> >
> >> I've signed up for Mentor, in case we go ahead...
> >> On Jul 29, 2011, at 5:46 AM, dsh wrote:
> >>
> >> > Sebastian and Alexei,
> >> >
> >> > your are welcome! Btw, here is my +1
> >> >
> >> > On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 9:47 AM, Alexei Fedotov
> >> > <alexei.fedotov@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> Daniel,
> >> >> Thank you for an excellent report!
> >> >>
> >> >> --
> >> >> With best regards / с наилучшими пожеланиями,
> >> >> Alexei Fedotov / Алексей Федотов,
> >> >> http://dataved.ru/
> >> >> +7 916 562 8095
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> On Thu, Jul 28, 2011 at 10:20 PM, dsh <daniel.haischt@googlemail.com
> >
> >> wrote:
> >> >>> Hi,
> >> >>>
> >> >>> please find my feedback below:
> >> >>>
> >> >>> OS X Lion:
> >> >>>
> >> >>> * tested with:
> >> >>> ** Firefox 5.0.1 and Adobe Flash Player 10.3
> >> >>> ** Safari 5.1 and Adobe Flash Player 10.3
> >> >>> * Observations:
> >> >>> ** Openmeetings did not work with Firefox/Safari if using a
> webcam/mic
> >> >>> cause on the adobe flash player settings dialog it was not possible
> to
> >> >>> click allow nor deny
> >> >>> ** In Safari clicking the share/record screen button N times did
> open
> >> >>> the screen sharing app N times (maybe you want to check whether
an
> >> >>> instance of the app is already running)
> >> >>> ** I understand if sharing screens everybody has control over your
> >> >>> screen. you may consider adding a view only mode too.
> >> >>> ** you might check while signing up whether popup blockers are
> active.
> >> >>> if yes you could prompt the user to disable popup blockers first
> >> >>> before signing in.
> >> >>> ** pressing the share/record screen button opens a new, blank window
> >> >>> just to download the JNLP app. maybe you want to change that to
not
> >> >>> open a separate window that needs to be closed after starting the
> JNLP
> >> >>> app
> >> >>> ** It looks like after stopping screen sharing the shared screen
> still
> >> >>> remains on each participants screen. Maybe it would make sense
to
> >> >>> provide a message to each participant that the host stopped sharing
> >> >>> its screen.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> OS X Snow Leopard:
> >> >>>
> >> >>> * tested with:
> >> >>> ** Firefox 5.0.1 and Adobe Flash Player 10.3
> >> >>> ** Safari 5.1 and Adobe Flash Player 10.3
> >> >>> * Observations:
> >> >>> ** Openmeetings did not work with Firefox cause the initial screen
> did
> >> >>> not load after signing up
> >> >>> ** In Safari clicking the share/record screen button N times did
> open
> >> >>> the screen sharing app N times (maybe you want to check whether
an
> >> >>> instance of the app is already running)
> >> >>> ** I understand if sharing screens everybody has control over your
> >> >>> screen. you may consider adding a view only mode too.
> >> >>> ** you might check while signing up whether popup blockers are
> active.
> >> >>> if yes you could prompt the user to disable popup blockers first
> >> >>> before signing in.
> >> >>> ** pressing the share/record screen button opens a new, blank window
> >> >>> just to download the JNLP app. maybe you want to change that to
not
> >> >>> open a separate window that needs to be closed after starting the
> JNLP
> >> >>> app
> >> >>> ** It looks like after stopping screen sharing the shared screen
> still
> >> >>> remains on each participants screen. Maybe it would make sense
to
> >> >>> provide a message to each participant that the host stopped sharing
> >> >>> its screen.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Windows 7 Ultimate:
> >> >>>
> >> >>> * tested with:
> >> >>> ** Firefox 4.0.1 and Adobe Flash Player 10.3
> >> >>> ** Firefox 5.0.1 and Adobe Flash Player 10.3
> >> >>> ** Safari 5.1 and Adobe Flash Player 10.3
> >> >>> * Observations:
> >> >>> ** In Firefox clicking the share/record screen button N times did
> open
> >> >>> the screen sharing app N times (maybe you want to check whether
an
> >> >>> instance of the app is already running)
> >> >>> ** I understand if sharing screens everybody has control over your
> >> >>> screen. you may consider adding a view only mode too.
> >> >>> ** you might check while signing up whether popup blockers are
> active.
> >> >>> if yes you could prompt the user to disable popup blockers first
> >> >>> before signing in.
> >> >>> ** In Safari signing up did open a new window instead of opening
a
> new
> >> >>> tab which is different to Firefox"s behaviour (maybe this can be
> >> >>> changed in the Safari prefs)
> >> >>> ** pressing the share/record screen button opens a new, blank window
> >> >>> just to download the JNLP app. maybe you want to change that to
not
> >> >>> open a separate window that needs to be closed after starting the
> JNLP
> >> >>> app
> >> >>> ** It looks like after stopping screen sharing the shared screen
> still
> >> >>> remains on each participants screen. Maybe it would make sense
to
> >> >>> provide a message to each participant that the host stopped sharing
> >> >>> its screen.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Fedora Core 15 Gnome Edition:
> >> >>>
> >> >>> * tested with:
> >> >>> ** Firefox 4.0.1 and Adobe Flash Player 11
> >> >>> * Observations:
> >> >>> * I had to download the JNLP file and execute it using javaws on
the
> >> >>> command line. Did expect it would be run more seamlessly cause
the
> >> >>> IcedTea-Web plug-in is installed
> >> >>> ** In Firefox clicking the share/record screen button N times did
> open
> >> >>> the screen sharing app N times (maybe you want to check whether
an
> >> >>> instance of the app is already running)
> >> >>> ** I understand if sharing screens everybody has control over your
> >> >>> screen. you may consider adding a view only mode too.
> >> >>> ** you might check while signing up whether popup blockers are
> active.
> >> >>> if yes you could prompt the user to disable popup blockers first
> >> >>> before signing in.
> >> >>> ** pressing the share/record screen button opens a new, blank window
> >> >>> just to download the JNLP app. maybe you want to change that to
not
> >> >>> open a separate window that needs to be closed after starting the
> JNLP
> >> >>> app
> >> >>> ** It looks like after stopping screen sharing the shared screen
> still
> >> >>> remains on each participants screen. Maybe it would make sense
to
> >> >>> provide a message to each participant that the host stopped sharing
> >> >>> its screen.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Fedora Core 15 KDE Edition:
> >> >>>
> >> >>> * tested with:
> >> >>> ** Firefox 5.0 and Adobe Flash Player 11
> >> >>> * Observations:
> >> >>> * The JNLP app was started using IcedTea-Web on the fly. So I guess
> on
> >> >>> Fedora Core Gnome Edition one would need to manually setup some
mime
> >> >>> types etc. in firefox to recognize JNLP files accordingly
> >> >>> ** In Firefox clicking the share/record screen button N times did
> open
> >> >>> the screen sharing app N times (maybe you want to check whether
an
> >> >>> instance of the app is already running)
> >> >>> ** I understand if sharing screens everybody has control over your
> >> >>> screen. you may consider adding a view only mode too.
> >> >>> ** you might check while signing up whether popup blockers are
> active.
> >> >>> if yes you could prompt the user to disable popup blockers first
> >> >>> before signing in.
> >> >>> ** pressing the share/record screen button opens a new, blank window
> >> >>> just to download the JNLP app. maybe you want to change that to
not
> >> >>> open a separate window that needs to be closed after starting the
> JNLP
> >> >>> app
> >> >>> ** It looks like after stopping screen sharing the shared screen
> still
> >> >>> remains on each participants screen. Maybe it would make sense
to
> >> >>> provide a message to each participant that the host stopped sharing
> >> >>> its screen.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Ubuntu 11.04 (Natty):
> >> >>>
> >> >>> * tested with:
> >> >>> ** Firefox 5.0 and Adobe Flash Player 10.3
> >> >>> * Observations:
> >> >>> * The JNLP app was started using IcedTea-Web on the fly. So I guess
> on
> >> >>> Fedora Core Gnome Edition one would need to manually setup some
mime
> >> >>> types etc. in firefox to recognize JNLP files accordingly
> >> >>> ** In Firefox clicking the share/record screen button N times did
> open
> >> >>> the screen sharing app N times (maybe you want to check whether
an
> >> >>> instance of the app is already running)
> >> >>> ** I understand if sharing screens everybody has control over your
> >> >>> screen. you may consider adding a view only mode too.
> >> >>> ** you might check while signing up whether popup blockers are
> active.
> >> >>> if yes you could prompt the user to disable popup blockers first
> >> >>> before signing in.
> >> >>> ** pressing the share/record screen button opens a new, blank window
> >> >>> just to download the JNLP app. maybe you want to change that to
not
> >> >>> open a separate window that needs to be closed after starting the
> JNLP
> >> >>> app
> >> >>> ** pressing the share/record screen button did not lead to an
> >> >>> immediate screen sharing session. Maybe you could provide some
> >> >>> indication that the screen sharing session is being initialized
to
> >> >>> prevent clicking the share/record screen button multiple times.
> >> >>> ** It looks like after stopping screen sharing the shared screen
> still
> >> >>> remains on each participants screen. Maybe it would make sense
to
> >> >>> provide a message to each participant that the host stopped sharing
> >> >>> its screen.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Debian 6.0.1:
> >> >>>
> >> >>> * tested with:
> >> >>> ** Iceweasl 3.5.16 and Adobe Flash Player 10.1
> >> >>> * Observations:
> >> >>> ** After signing up the application did not load. I suppose this
is
> >> >>> due to using Gnash that comes together with Debian (I could read
the
> >> >>> autoconnect message but the progressbar did not appear). Installing
> >> >>> the official Adobe Flash 11 for 64bit systems player fixed this.
> >> >>> ** you might check while signing up whether popup blockers are
> active.
> >> >>> if yes you could prompt the user to disable popup blockers first
> >> >>> before signing in.
> >> >>> ** On some Linux distributions (including Debian) the web browser
> >> >>> window was resized after clicking sign-up. This might be annoying
to
> >> >>> some users.
> >> >>> ** Pressing the allow button on the flash player prefs pane caused
> >> >>> Iceweasle to crash (this did happen after upgrading to the official
> >> >>> adobe flash player)
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Openindiana Build 148:
> >> >>>
> >> >>> * tested with:
> >> >>> ** Firefox 3.6.8 and Adobe Flash Player 10.3
> >> >>> * Observations:
> >> >>> * The JNLP app was started using JavaWS on the fly. So I guess
on
> >> >>> Fedora Core Gnome Edition one would need to manually setup some
mime
> >> >>> types etc. in firefox to recognize JNLP files accordingly
> >> >>> ** In Firefox clicking the share/record screen button N times did
> open
> >> >>> the screen sharing app N times (maybe you want to check whether
an
> >> >>> instance of the app is already running)
> >> >>> ** I understand if sharing screens everybody has control over your
> >> >>> screen. you may consider adding a view only mode too.
> >> >>> ** you might check while signing up whether popup blockers are
> active.
> >> >>> if yes you could prompt the user to disable popup blockers first
> >> >>> before signing in.
> >> >>> ** pressing the share/record screen button opens a new, blank window
> >> >>> just to download the JNLP app. maybe you want to change that to
not
> >> >>> open a separate window that needs to be closed after starting the
> JNLP
> >> >>> app
> >> >>> ** pressing the share/record screen button did not lead to an
> >> >>> immediate screen sharing session. Maybe you could provide some
> >> >>> indication that the screen sharing session is being initialized
to
> >> >>> prevent clicking the share/record screen button multiple times.
> >> >>> ** It looks like after stopping screen sharing the shared screen
> still
> >> >>> remains on each participants screen. Maybe it would make sense
to
> >> >>> provide a message to each participant that the host stopped sharing
> >> >>> its screen.
> >> >>> ** On some operating systems (including Openindiana) the web browser
> >> >>> window was resized after clicking sign-up. This might be annoying
to
> >> >>> some users.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> PCBSD 9 Isotope Edition (KDE 4.6.3 Desktop):
> >> >>>
> >> >>> ** Firefox 4.0.1 and Linux Adobe Flash Player 10
> >> >>> * Observations:
> >> >>> * Gave up in the end because the flash play didn't work accordingly
> >> >>> and installing Java is a real PITA. Guess even if it's called PCBSD,
> >> >>> it's not a real end user (aka desktop) system because it heavily
> >> >>> depends on the FreeBSD system.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Overall observation:
> >> >>>
> >> >>> The only thing which is introducing some issues on certain platforms
> >> >>> is Java/Flash as a plug-in on certain platforms cause they are
not
> >> >>> treated as 1st class citizen of the operating systems. For instance
> on
> >> >>> OS X Lion Java has been removed and must be installed first prior
to
> >> >>> be able to use Java-based apps. Linux seems to be exposing some
> >> >>> difficulties with both Flash and Java (i.e. webstart).
> >> >>>
> >> >>> So maybe working on the above identified Java/Flash issues could
be
> >> >>> one objective for the incubation phase.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> If I would have a free wish I'd like to see OpenMeetings supporting
> >> >>> the capability to join an Asterisk phone conference call. That
way I
> >> >>> could be using real phones I am using at home connected to an
> Askozia
> >> >>> PBX for instance to have conference calls using OpenMeetings.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Cheers
> >> >>> Daniel
> >> >>>
> >> >>> On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 12:22 PM, Sebastian Wagner
> >> >>> <seba.wagner@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >>>> hi,
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> we would like to propose Openmeetings project to join the
> incubator.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Full Proposal:
> >> >>>> http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/OpenmeetingsProposal
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Quick summary:
> >> >>>> OpenMeetings is Web Conferencing application that fits into
> >> educational or
> >> >>>> business sector. You can make conference sessions in different
> >> room-types
> >> >>>> with up to 100 peoples in a Room. It contains all main features
of
> Web
> >> >>>> Conferencing: Audio/Video, Whiteboard, Screen Sharing, Chat
and
> >> Moderation
> >> >>>> System. It is translated into more then 20 languages and its
a
> basic
> >> goal of
> >> >>>> OpenMeetings to be easy to embed into existing environments.
It
> >> already uses
> >> >>>> many of Apache Technologies like Tomcat, Mina, Velocity, Commons,
> ...
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> You may find all existing documents and further material on
the
> >> GoogleCode
> >> >>>> pages: http://code.google.com/p/openmeetings/
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> We appreciate any feedback and comments on the proposal.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> sebastian wagner
> >> >>>> --
> >> >>>> Sebastian Wagner
> >> >>>> http://www.webbase-design.de
> >> >>>> http://openmeetings.googlecode.com
> >> >>>> http://www.laszlo-forum.de
> >> >>>> seba.wagner@gmail.com
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
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> >> >>>
> >> >>>
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> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
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> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > Sebastian Wagner
> > http://www.webbase-design.de
> > http://openmeetings.googlecode.com
> > http://www.wagner-sebastian.com
> > seba.wagner@gmail.com
> >
>
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>


-- 
Sebastian Wagner
http://www.webbase-design.de
http://openmeetings.googlecode.com
http://www.wagner-sebastian.com
seba.wagner@gmail.com

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