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From Scott Wilson <scott.bradley.wil...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: [PROPOSAL] Apache OpenMeetings incubator for Web Conferencing
Date Fri, 12 Aug 2011 08:49:20 GMT

On 12 Aug 2011, at 08:22, seba.wagner@gmail.com wrote:

> Yes,
> 
> the Java Servlet Spec 3.0 also contains methods for push mechanisms. We
> could already use similar technologies for pushing data packets around.
> 
> However there is zero support for *real* streaming in the JavaScript world.
> RTMP is not just about pushing some messages around, it is about streaming,
> buffering ... and there is no equivalent for doing that in HTML5. So you
> will hardly have the chance to build a web-conferencing with 100% JavaScript
> and no external plugins.
> 

Take a look at WebRTC:

http://www.webrtc.org/
http://www.w3.org/2011/04/webrtc/

> The only at least acceptable solution might be using a Java-Applet/JNLP to
> do the necessary multimedia part, that way you have at least full control
> about it and are not forced to use a "black-box" like Adobe Flash or
> Silverlight and still people don't need to install anything. However
> implementing a cross-platform Java-Applet/Webstart-App that accesses the
> Webcam/Microphone on any device is also not that trivial. Once the so
> produced stream reaches the server you might be able that users can use the
> HTML5-video tag to watch it.
> 
> Sebastian
> 
> 2011/8/11 Kalle Korhonen <kalle.o.korhonen@gmail.com>
> 
>> 2011/8/11 seba.wagner@gmail.com <seba.wagner@gmail.com>:
>>> I have updated the Proposal to be more clear on the external dependencies
>>> and possibilities to move away from them:
>>> 
>> http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/OpenmeetingsProposal#External_Dependencies
>> 
>> From the sidelines, WebSockets would seem like a strong contender to
>> replace RTMP. GlassFish's Atmosphere is under CDDL (which is allowed
>> as appropriately labeled).
>> 
>> Kalle
>> 
>> 
>>> 2011/8/11 Jim Jagielski <jim@jagunet.com>
>>> 
>>>> I've signed up for Mentor, in case we go ahead...
>>>> On Jul 29, 2011, at 5:46 AM, dsh wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Sebastian and Alexei,
>>>>> 
>>>>> your are welcome! Btw, here is my +1
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 9:47 AM, Alexei Fedotov
>>>>> <alexei.fedotov@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Daniel,
>>>>>> Thank you for an excellent report!
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> With best regards / с наилучшими пожеланиями,
>>>>>> Alexei Fedotov / Алексей Федотов,
>>>>>> http://dataved.ru/
>>>>>> +7 916 562 8095
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Thu, Jul 28, 2011 at 10:20 PM, dsh <daniel.haischt@googlemail.com
>>> 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> please find my feedback below:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> OS X Lion:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> * tested with:
>>>>>>> ** Firefox 5.0.1 and Adobe Flash Player 10.3
>>>>>>> ** Safari 5.1 and Adobe Flash Player 10.3
>>>>>>> * Observations:
>>>>>>> ** Openmeetings did not work with Firefox/Safari if using a
>> webcam/mic
>>>>>>> cause on the adobe flash player settings dialog it was not possible
>> to
>>>>>>> click allow nor deny
>>>>>>> ** In Safari clicking the share/record screen button N times
did
>> open
>>>>>>> the screen sharing app N times (maybe you want to check whether
an
>>>>>>> instance of the app is already running)
>>>>>>> ** I understand if sharing screens everybody has control over
your
>>>>>>> screen. you may consider adding a view only mode too.
>>>>>>> ** you might check while signing up whether popup blockers are
>> active.
>>>>>>> if yes you could prompt the user to disable popup blockers first
>>>>>>> before signing in.
>>>>>>> ** pressing the share/record screen button opens a new, blank
window
>>>>>>> just to download the JNLP app. maybe you want to change that
to not
>>>>>>> open a separate window that needs to be closed after starting
the
>> JNLP
>>>>>>> app
>>>>>>> ** It looks like after stopping screen sharing the shared screen
>> still
>>>>>>> remains on each participants screen. Maybe it would make sense
to
>>>>>>> provide a message to each participant that the host stopped sharing
>>>>>>> its screen.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> OS X Snow Leopard:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> * tested with:
>>>>>>> ** Firefox 5.0.1 and Adobe Flash Player 10.3
>>>>>>> ** Safari 5.1 and Adobe Flash Player 10.3
>>>>>>> * Observations:
>>>>>>> ** Openmeetings did not work with Firefox cause the initial screen
>> did
>>>>>>> not load after signing up
>>>>>>> ** In Safari clicking the share/record screen button N times
did
>> open
>>>>>>> the screen sharing app N times (maybe you want to check whether
an
>>>>>>> instance of the app is already running)
>>>>>>> ** I understand if sharing screens everybody has control over
your
>>>>>>> screen. you may consider adding a view only mode too.
>>>>>>> ** you might check while signing up whether popup blockers are
>> active.
>>>>>>> if yes you could prompt the user to disable popup blockers first
>>>>>>> before signing in.
>>>>>>> ** pressing the share/record screen button opens a new, blank
window
>>>>>>> just to download the JNLP app. maybe you want to change that
to not
>>>>>>> open a separate window that needs to be closed after starting
the
>> JNLP
>>>>>>> app
>>>>>>> ** It looks like after stopping screen sharing the shared screen
>> still
>>>>>>> remains on each participants screen. Maybe it would make sense
to
>>>>>>> provide a message to each participant that the host stopped sharing
>>>>>>> its screen.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Windows 7 Ultimate:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> * tested with:
>>>>>>> ** Firefox 4.0.1 and Adobe Flash Player 10.3
>>>>>>> ** Firefox 5.0.1 and Adobe Flash Player 10.3
>>>>>>> ** Safari 5.1 and Adobe Flash Player 10.3
>>>>>>> * Observations:
>>>>>>> ** In Firefox clicking the share/record screen button N times
did
>> open
>>>>>>> the screen sharing app N times (maybe you want to check whether
an
>>>>>>> instance of the app is already running)
>>>>>>> ** I understand if sharing screens everybody has control over
your
>>>>>>> screen. you may consider adding a view only mode too.
>>>>>>> ** you might check while signing up whether popup blockers are
>> active.
>>>>>>> if yes you could prompt the user to disable popup blockers first
>>>>>>> before signing in.
>>>>>>> ** In Safari signing up did open a new window instead of opening
a
>> new
>>>>>>> tab which is different to Firefox"s behaviour (maybe this can
be
>>>>>>> changed in the Safari prefs)
>>>>>>> ** pressing the share/record screen button opens a new, blank
window
>>>>>>> just to download the JNLP app. maybe you want to change that
to not
>>>>>>> open a separate window that needs to be closed after starting
the
>> JNLP
>>>>>>> app
>>>>>>> ** It looks like after stopping screen sharing the shared screen
>> still
>>>>>>> remains on each participants screen. Maybe it would make sense
to
>>>>>>> provide a message to each participant that the host stopped sharing
>>>>>>> its screen.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Fedora Core 15 Gnome Edition:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> * tested with:
>>>>>>> ** Firefox 4.0.1 and Adobe Flash Player 11
>>>>>>> * Observations:
>>>>>>> * I had to download the JNLP file and execute it using javaws
on the
>>>>>>> command line. Did expect it would be run more seamlessly cause
the
>>>>>>> IcedTea-Web plug-in is installed
>>>>>>> ** In Firefox clicking the share/record screen button N times
did
>> open
>>>>>>> the screen sharing app N times (maybe you want to check whether
an
>>>>>>> instance of the app is already running)
>>>>>>> ** I understand if sharing screens everybody has control over
your
>>>>>>> screen. you may consider adding a view only mode too.
>>>>>>> ** you might check while signing up whether popup blockers are
>> active.
>>>>>>> if yes you could prompt the user to disable popup blockers first
>>>>>>> before signing in.
>>>>>>> ** pressing the share/record screen button opens a new, blank
window
>>>>>>> just to download the JNLP app. maybe you want to change that
to not
>>>>>>> open a separate window that needs to be closed after starting
the
>> JNLP
>>>>>>> app
>>>>>>> ** It looks like after stopping screen sharing the shared screen
>> still
>>>>>>> remains on each participants screen. Maybe it would make sense
to
>>>>>>> provide a message to each participant that the host stopped sharing
>>>>>>> its screen.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Fedora Core 15 KDE Edition:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> * tested with:
>>>>>>> ** Firefox 5.0 and Adobe Flash Player 11
>>>>>>> * Observations:
>>>>>>> * The JNLP app was started using IcedTea-Web on the fly. So I
guess
>> on
>>>>>>> Fedora Core Gnome Edition one would need to manually setup some
mime
>>>>>>> types etc. in firefox to recognize JNLP files accordingly
>>>>>>> ** In Firefox clicking the share/record screen button N times
did
>> open
>>>>>>> the screen sharing app N times (maybe you want to check whether
an
>>>>>>> instance of the app is already running)
>>>>>>> ** I understand if sharing screens everybody has control over
your
>>>>>>> screen. you may consider adding a view only mode too.
>>>>>>> ** you might check while signing up whether popup blockers are
>> active.
>>>>>>> if yes you could prompt the user to disable popup blockers first
>>>>>>> before signing in.
>>>>>>> ** pressing the share/record screen button opens a new, blank
window
>>>>>>> just to download the JNLP app. maybe you want to change that
to not
>>>>>>> open a separate window that needs to be closed after starting
the
>> JNLP
>>>>>>> app
>>>>>>> ** It looks like after stopping screen sharing the shared screen
>> still
>>>>>>> remains on each participants screen. Maybe it would make sense
to
>>>>>>> provide a message to each participant that the host stopped sharing
>>>>>>> its screen.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Ubuntu 11.04 (Natty):
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> * tested with:
>>>>>>> ** Firefox 5.0 and Adobe Flash Player 10.3
>>>>>>> * Observations:
>>>>>>> * The JNLP app was started using IcedTea-Web on the fly. So I
guess
>> on
>>>>>>> Fedora Core Gnome Edition one would need to manually setup some
mime
>>>>>>> types etc. in firefox to recognize JNLP files accordingly
>>>>>>> ** In Firefox clicking the share/record screen button N times
did
>> open
>>>>>>> the screen sharing app N times (maybe you want to check whether
an
>>>>>>> instance of the app is already running)
>>>>>>> ** I understand if sharing screens everybody has control over
your
>>>>>>> screen. you may consider adding a view only mode too.
>>>>>>> ** you might check while signing up whether popup blockers are
>> active.
>>>>>>> if yes you could prompt the user to disable popup blockers first
>>>>>>> before signing in.
>>>>>>> ** pressing the share/record screen button opens a new, blank
window
>>>>>>> just to download the JNLP app. maybe you want to change that
to not
>>>>>>> open a separate window that needs to be closed after starting
the
>> JNLP
>>>>>>> app
>>>>>>> ** pressing the share/record screen button did not lead to an
>>>>>>> immediate screen sharing session. Maybe you could provide some
>>>>>>> indication that the screen sharing session is being initialized
to
>>>>>>> prevent clicking the share/record screen button multiple times.
>>>>>>> ** It looks like after stopping screen sharing the shared screen
>> still
>>>>>>> remains on each participants screen. Maybe it would make sense
to
>>>>>>> provide a message to each participant that the host stopped sharing
>>>>>>> its screen.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Debian 6.0.1:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> * tested with:
>>>>>>> ** Iceweasl 3.5.16 and Adobe Flash Player 10.1
>>>>>>> * Observations:
>>>>>>> ** After signing up the application did not load. I suppose this
is
>>>>>>> due to using Gnash that comes together with Debian (I could read
the
>>>>>>> autoconnect message but the progressbar did not appear). Installing
>>>>>>> the official Adobe Flash 11 for 64bit systems player fixed this.
>>>>>>> ** you might check while signing up whether popup blockers are
>> active.
>>>>>>> if yes you could prompt the user to disable popup blockers first
>>>>>>> before signing in.
>>>>>>> ** On some Linux distributions (including Debian) the web browser
>>>>>>> window was resized after clicking sign-up. This might be annoying
to
>>>>>>> some users.
>>>>>>> ** Pressing the allow button on the flash player prefs pane caused
>>>>>>> Iceweasle to crash (this did happen after upgrading to the official
>>>>>>> adobe flash player)
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Openindiana Build 148:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> * tested with:
>>>>>>> ** Firefox 3.6.8 and Adobe Flash Player 10.3
>>>>>>> * Observations:
>>>>>>> * The JNLP app was started using JavaWS on the fly. So I guess
on
>>>>>>> Fedora Core Gnome Edition one would need to manually setup some
mime
>>>>>>> types etc. in firefox to recognize JNLP files accordingly
>>>>>>> ** In Firefox clicking the share/record screen button N times
did
>> open
>>>>>>> the screen sharing app N times (maybe you want to check whether
an
>>>>>>> instance of the app is already running)
>>>>>>> ** I understand if sharing screens everybody has control over
your
>>>>>>> screen. you may consider adding a view only mode too.
>>>>>>> ** you might check while signing up whether popup blockers are
>> active.
>>>>>>> if yes you could prompt the user to disable popup blockers first
>>>>>>> before signing in.
>>>>>>> ** pressing the share/record screen button opens a new, blank
window
>>>>>>> just to download the JNLP app. maybe you want to change that
to not
>>>>>>> open a separate window that needs to be closed after starting
the
>> JNLP
>>>>>>> app
>>>>>>> ** pressing the share/record screen button did not lead to an
>>>>>>> immediate screen sharing session. Maybe you could provide some
>>>>>>> indication that the screen sharing session is being initialized
to
>>>>>>> prevent clicking the share/record screen button multiple times.
>>>>>>> ** It looks like after stopping screen sharing the shared screen
>> still
>>>>>>> remains on each participants screen. Maybe it would make sense
to
>>>>>>> provide a message to each participant that the host stopped sharing
>>>>>>> its screen.
>>>>>>> ** On some operating systems (including Openindiana) the web
browser
>>>>>>> window was resized after clicking sign-up. This might be annoying
to
>>>>>>> some users.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> PCBSD 9 Isotope Edition (KDE 4.6.3 Desktop):
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> ** Firefox 4.0.1 and Linux Adobe Flash Player 10
>>>>>>> * Observations:
>>>>>>> * Gave up in the end because the flash play didn't work accordingly
>>>>>>> and installing Java is a real PITA. Guess even if it's called
PCBSD,
>>>>>>> it's not a real end user (aka desktop) system because it heavily
>>>>>>> depends on the FreeBSD system.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Overall observation:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> The only thing which is introducing some issues on certain platforms
>>>>>>> is Java/Flash as a plug-in on certain platforms cause they are
not
>>>>>>> treated as 1st class citizen of the operating systems. For instance
>> on
>>>>>>> OS X Lion Java has been removed and must be installed first prior
to
>>>>>>> be able to use Java-based apps. Linux seems to be exposing some
>>>>>>> difficulties with both Flash and Java (i.e. webstart).
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> So maybe working on the above identified Java/Flash issues could
be
>>>>>>> one objective for the incubation phase.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> If I would have a free wish I'd like to see OpenMeetings supporting
>>>>>>> the capability to join an Asterisk phone conference call. That
way I
>>>>>>> could be using real phones I am using at home connected to an
>> Askozia
>>>>>>> PBX for instance to have conference calls using OpenMeetings.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>>> Daniel
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 12:22 PM, Sebastian Wagner
>>>>>>> <seba.wagner@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> hi,
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> we would like to propose Openmeetings project to join the
>> incubator.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Full Proposal:
>>>>>>>> http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/OpenmeetingsProposal
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Quick summary:
>>>>>>>> OpenMeetings is Web Conferencing application that fits into
>>>> educational or
>>>>>>>> business sector. You can make conference sessions in different
>>>> room-types
>>>>>>>> with up to 100 peoples in a Room. It contains all main features
of
>> Web
>>>>>>>> Conferencing: Audio/Video, Whiteboard, Screen Sharing, Chat
and
>>>> Moderation
>>>>>>>> System. It is translated into more then 20 languages and
its a
>> basic
>>>> goal of
>>>>>>>> OpenMeetings to be easy to embed into existing environments.
It
>>>> already uses
>>>>>>>> many of Apache Technologies like Tomcat, Mina, Velocity,
Commons,
>> ...
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> You may find all existing documents and further material
on the
>>>> GoogleCode
>>>>>>>> pages: http://code.google.com/p/openmeetings/
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> We appreciate any feedback and comments on the proposal.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> sebastian wagner
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Sebastian Wagner
>>>>>>>> http://www.webbase-design.de
>>>>>>>> http://openmeetings.googlecode.com
>>>>>>>> http://www.laszlo-forum.de
>>>>>>>> seba.wagner@gmail.com
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
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>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
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>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
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>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Sebastian Wagner
>>> http://www.webbase-design.de
>>> http://openmeetings.googlecode.com
>>> http://www.wagner-sebastian.com
>>> seba.wagner@gmail.com
>>> 
>> 
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
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>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Sebastian Wagner
> http://www.webbase-design.de
> http://openmeetings.googlecode.com
> http://www.wagner-sebastian.com
> seba.wagner@gmail.com


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