From general-return-29630-apmail-incubator-general-archive=incubator.apache.org@incubator.apache.org Tue Jun 7 13:28:03 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: apmail-incubator-general-archive@www.apache.org Delivered-To: apmail-incubator-general-archive@www.apache.org Received: from mail.apache.org (hermes.apache.org [140.211.11.3]) by minotaur.apache.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B0A446178 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2011 13:28:03 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 46863 invoked by uid 500); 7 Jun 2011 13:28:03 -0000 Delivered-To: apmail-incubator-general-archive@incubator.apache.org Received: (qmail 46720 invoked by uid 500); 7 Jun 2011 13:28:02 -0000 Mailing-List: contact general-help@incubator.apache.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Post: List-Id: Reply-To: general@incubator.apache.org Delivered-To: mailing list general@incubator.apache.org Received: (qmail 46711 invoked by uid 99); 7 Jun 2011 13:28:02 -0000 Received: from athena.apache.org (HELO athena.apache.org) (140.211.11.136) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Tue, 07 Jun 2011 13:28:02 +0000 X-ASF-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.6 required=5.0 tests=RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED,SPF_NEUTRAL X-Spam-Check-By: apache.org Received-SPF: neutral (athena.apache.org: local policy) Received: from [192.6.10.2] (HELO colossus.hpl.hp.com) (192.6.10.2) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Tue, 07 Jun 2011 13:27:54 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by colossus.hpl.hp.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A97A1BA990 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2011 14:27:33 +0100 (BST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at hpl.hp.com Received: from colossus.hpl.hp.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (colossus.hpl.hp.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 59ymTOHZ0-T0 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2011 14:27:32 +0100 (BST) Received: from 0-imap-br1.hpl.hp.com (0-imap-br1.hpl.hp.com [16.25.144.60]) by colossus.hpl.hp.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 854921BA98A for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2011 14:27:32 +0100 (BST) MailScanner-NULL-Check: 1308058038.64132@nrLP0fK5hsP66TE4eBLQWQ Received: from [16.25.175.86] (wildhaus.hpl.hp.com [16.25.175.86]) by 0-imap-br1.hpl.hp.com (8.14.1/8.13.4) with ESMTP id p57DRIf5027293 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2011 14:27:18 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <4DEE2736.1050109@apache.org> Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2011 14:27:18 +0100 From: Steve Loughran User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux x86_64; en-US; rv:1.9.2.17) Gecko/20110419 Red Hat/3.1.10-1.el6_0 Thunderbird/3.1.10 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: general@incubator.apache.org Subject: Re: Corporate Contribution [Blondie's Parallel Lines...] References: <20110602000137.GA60771@devsys.jaguNET.com> <4DE6D6E9.8080609@apache.org> <4DE76850.2060905@documentfoundation.org> <2D234AC2-791A-4BD9-9B71-B93610164604@jaguNET.com> <0F640D95-CE65-487B-B274-08F98545C500@jaguNET.com> <4DE7B553.3090502@apache.org> <4DE7E2F0.6010109@rowe-clan.net> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-HPL-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-MailScanner-ID: p57DRIf5027293 X-HPL-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-HPL-MailScanner-From: stevel@apache.org On 06/03/2011 03:58 AM, Sam Ruby wrote: > On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 10:24 PM, wrote: >>> >>> Corporate assignments are notorious at the ASF for disappearing >>> communities. Sometimes, there is momentum to keep going, often >>> times there is not. Communities are based on individuals. >> >> And individuals are often employed by corporations, and are their jobs >> sometimes entail contributing to open source communities. I think we all >> understand how this works. >> >> But do you have any hard numbers, for example, showing a higher >> abandonment rate for projects with more corporate assignments? That would >> be an interesting correlation to show. Of course, we must also consider >> the projects that never came into existence at all, for lack of corporate >> sponsorship. That number is harder to estimate. > > I can confirm that is is a common enough phenomenon to warrant > highlighting in the standard template: > > http://incubator.apache.org/guides/proposal.html#template-reliance-on-salaried-developers > >> And just because corporate withdrawals are "notorious" does not mean they >> are common, or that they are the greatest risk we should consider. The >> Boston Strangler and Jack the Ripper were also notorious, but you have a >> great risk of death falling down stairs. >> The issue with corporate reassignments is that everyone just "vanishes". They get reassigned, and go away. In OSS, individuals tend to drift off, go onto what else interests them, or whatever. The turnover/year may be the same, but the way the turnover happens is different. to make things worse, because the paid FTEs tend to work full time on the projects, they understand the code well, gain committers status through their contributions, and so when they go, a big chunk of the active knowledge goes along with their departure Examples Axis 1.x: IBM staffers all vanish. Harmony: IBM FTEs all vanish. I don't think we need any more, given that these show that IBM has a track record of doing this. Maybe not your bit of the company, but we outsiders can't tell that --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org