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From Steve Loughran <>
Subject Re: [VOTE] Accept for incubation
Date Mon, 13 Jun 2011 11:47:53 GMT
On 10/06/11 17:02, Sam Ruby wrote:
> *** Please change your Subject: line for any [DISCUSSION] of this [VOTE]
> As the discussions on the OpenOfficeProposal threads seem to be winding
> down, I would like to initiate the vote to accept as an
> Apache Incubator project.
> At the end of this mail, I've put a copy of the current proposal. Here
> is a link to the document in the wiki:
> As the proposal discussion threads are numerous, I encourage people to
> scan and review the archives for this month:
> Please cast your votes:
> [ ] +1 Accept for incubation
> [ ] +0 Indifferent to incubation
> [ ] -1 Reject for incubation

I may have missed the vote it being over a weekend and me not checking 
my mail until work hours, but being in GMT0BST I think I'm still in 
time. I've also read through the other votes to help shape my own.

-1 (non binding)

* This may not foster an OSS community -just split a growing one in a 
way that benefits two large vendors (Oracle, IBM) rather than the world 
as a whole. In particular, a large chunk of the ongoing LibreOffice team 
are against this proposal, and I'd be happier being on good terms with 
the rest of the OSS world than with anyone else.

* A code dump without the oracle engineering team is going to be a hard 
thing to work with. If the majority of people who work on the ASF 
codebase are IBM FTEs, the knowledge of the codebase doesn't spread, and 
when IBM decide to re-assign the engineers (as has happened with Axis 
and Harmony), the knowledge of the code will go away. Sanjiva can vouch 
for that, having helped pick up the pieces of one of those projects (and 
done a good job of it :)

* It's a mass-market consumer OSS project on a par with firefox, not the 
developer-centric tooling or server-side platforms we've historically 
been involved in. If my mother has a problem with OpenOffice on her 
(Ubuntu 10.4) laptop, I can't tell her to download SVN trunk and debug 
the problem then submit a patch, as she can't even get the font settings 
right in Yahoo! mail to stop it sending emails out in Courier 36.

* Although it's key download bandwidth may be on Windows, it is the key 
office-compatible platform in the Linux world, which is why I run it on 
all my office PCs. That bandwidth doesn't get measured, as it comes from 
the RHEL, CentOS, Ubuntu, SuSE and, um, Oracle repositories. Linux 
hasn't suffered by being GPL, and IBM are happy to work within that 
license constraint, so why not say "you want to stay on the trunk of the 
open-office derivative works? Embrace GPL!"

* I don't see why the ASF should do Oracle any favours, not given their 
past behaviour w.r.t the Java TCK, and their apparent willingness to sue 
google on what may be apparent patent issues within the Apache codebase. 
You can't sue someone over one bit of code and then at the same time say 
"let's be friends", on what may be just a way to gain some tax kickback 
by donating a half-dead brand to an open source project.

* I've not been happy with some of the discussions here were some of the 
evangelists of the proposal -who have never been seen on any ASF project 
I've ever encountered- suddenly seem to be knowledgeable about Apache's 
goals and intentions that myself. I get the feeling the ASF is being 
used as one of those pawns in a technology cold war "we'll trade Cuba 
for Hungary". Case in point: press releases announced this before 
anything else, implies to me a propaganda effort rather than progress.

The momentum is with TdF, that's where its home should be, and the ASF, 
Oracle and IBM should accept and acknowledge that fact.


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