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From Christoph Jopp <>
Subject Re: Question to TDF and its community
Date Tue, 07 Jun 2011 11:33:16 GMT
Am 07.06.2011 07:49, schrieb Christian Grobmeier:
> With OOo the company was nasty and people went away and were happy.
> The company wants the project at the ASF, and some people complain
> now.

I think it's far more complex and dates back very long. (see below)

> After all I never really heard the words "I want it at the ASF"
> from somebody with OOo adress -my feeling is it is the ASF which wants
> it most. I might be wrong, the number of e-mails is overwhelming.
> Also Geronimo is big, but OOo is huge and might give us a good amount
> of headache. When it comes to reputation, as Harmony has gone idle
> they were lots of talks about it in the press. Yes, i think we will
> earn some nasty words when this podling fails.

Yes, I'm also sure that you will get much work and headaches if you
support this proposal and nobody could tell you to do so. Only be
thankful if you did ;-)
The risk for your reputation need not to be so big. I think it mainly
depends on how this is brought forward. As a fully standalone, competing
Apache Office that does not try to collaborate with TDF and TDF not with
it (high risk) - or ... (also see below)

> I want a ASL Office, but I share Niclas concerns somehow. I am not
> sure if the TDF should be an entry requirement. I am a bit concerned
> this podling might only incubate because people are attracted by the
> OOo trademark.  From the proposal:
> "We believe in the processes, systems, and framework Apache has put in place."
> Really? How can we know? There was no real initial team, the OOo
> proposal started with a "call to arms". It seems everybody can get a
> free apache email address at the moment.
> I already know the answer - "incubation will show us". If this is the
> answer to everything, then we can start voting now.

The problem with the OOo community goes far beyond. As SUN bought
StarDivision and open sourced their software as the
imbalance of the community began and never ended.
"Imbalance" because they always "governed" the project as main sponsor
and directed development. As result very few "external" (means not
employed) developers could be attracted. A second result was that
voluntary supporters mainly got involved in "non-code" areas of the
project. I think some even developed the feeling of the community as the
side of the voluntary force and a more and more oponent "corporate"
side. As Oracle stepped in the minefield exploded.

So many bad emotions are still hanging around about who stole what baby
from whom and deep scars and wounds are present.

Amd I think healing the personal wounds is the thing that should happen
outside. But helping to heal the wounds of the community seems to be a
big talent of the Apache people. At least what I saw on the ML the last
few days.
This progress was a sign of hope that got me putting my name on the
committers list.
I see a huge part of the community at TDF and they are all doing a great
job. But still they are not what I learned to know as the whole OOo
community. So parts of the community stay away from TDF due to the
license - mainly the corporate part. But I think there is still a part
of the community that will not (yet or never) join TDF for other
reasons. I don't want to start a big discussion here - so I call these
reasons just wounds.

So my hope is that here could be found some way of
collaboration/"approximation"/someotherword between the up to now
fragmented OOo community under the hood or with help of the Apache
Foundation. But I don't believe all this could happen before the Apache
Foundation is going to vote over the proposal.

So the other possibility to forward "Apache Office" might be to try to
converge the parts of the "old" community by ways still
open. For me the idea of a future modular OOo ready to serve LO and all
others sounds good - maybe there are still more ideas.

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