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From "Mattmann, Chris A (388J)" <>
Subject Re: Basing Apache releases on releases from incubating projects
Date Wed, 01 Dec 2010 17:36:19 GMT
Hey Thilo,

> Is it just me, or have we come full circle ;-)

LOL, yep!

>>> We're doing a code grant, ICLAs from all current
>>> and previous contributors, etc etc, the whole nine yards.  The
>>> fact that the code is already under the Apache license makes hardly
>>> any difference.
>> Yep I've had to do this myself on several podlings. That's an IP issue more than
anything else and just cleaner all around since you guys are doing a code drop over here at
Apache, no?
>> That said, IP is a little bit of a different beast (as are SGA or ICLA) than what
I'm getting at. Basically what I'm saying is that if we've got "ASF Incubator Podlings", that
is, Apache branded code that isn't fully endorsed yet here at Apache yes, but that is *here
at Apache*, then there should be some easier mechanism than "making a release" to include
that good work going on in the ASF Incubator. Releases do not occur often enough in my experience
to make it the gate to include an Incubator podling's code that is itself ASLv2 licensed.
There should be an easier way (read: reward) for projects coming over here and being willing
to do it our way, from the start.
> But it's all about IP.  We're releasing under the Apache
> license.  That license makes some pretty strong claims
> about the code.  The ASF needs to be able to defend these
> claims in a court of law, so that's not a minor thing.  If
> some guys somewhere distribute their code under the Apache
> license but never really think about what that means, well,
> that's their problem.

But, unfortunately this happens all the time and saying it's their problem doesn't remedy
the situation that it happens all the time :(

I guess if I could boil down my position to a single sentence it would be:

"It would be nice if Apache projects had a mechanism other than 'release the podling' to include
podling (possibly unreleased) features in their own Apache projects."

In effect this makes it very easy to 'eat our Apache Incubator podling dogfood and reward
the podlings for trying to do the Apache Way from the start, rather than going to some other
OSS provider and then coming here later.

Maybe the answer here is that Apache Labs is already doing this (dunno), but it would be nice
(but not strictly required since it's my take on it and I took off my BDFL belt the other
day ^_^) if the Incubator was too.


Chris Mattmann, Ph.D.
Senior Computer Scientist
NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA
Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246
Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department
University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA

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