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Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] Accept Wave for incubation
From: Ralph Goers <ralph.goers@dslextreme.com>
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Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2010 08:35:50 -0800
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To: general@incubator.apache.org


On Nov 26, 2010, at 7:05 AM, Joe Schaefer wrote:

> ----- Original Message ----
>=20
>> From: Tad Glines <tad.glines@gmail.com>
>> To: general@incubator.apache.org
>> Sent: Fri, November 26, 2010 9:47:33 AM
>> Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] Accept Wave for incubation
>>=20
>> The  word "Wave" is far more generic than "TrafficServer", "Lucene"  =
or
>> "Hadoop".
>> When I did a search through the trademark database I found 62  =
trademarks on
>> the word "wave". There are others that contain the word wave  one of =
which is
>> Google's "Google Wave" trademark. While I am neither a lawyer  nor a
>> trademark expert, it seems logical to conclude that given the many  =
"Wave"
>> trademarks and the fact that Google was granted a "Google Wave"  =
trademark
>> that Apache would have no problem obtaining a trademark on "Apache  =
Wave" if
>> they wished to.
>>=20
>> I think it's also fairly safe to conclude  that Google is never going =
to
>> assign a trademark with the word "Google" in it  to another entity.
>>=20
>> If Google had a trademark on the plain word "Wave" in  the
>> communication/collaboration space, then I would expect that to be a  =
problem.
>> But, since they don't, I don't think this is an  issue.
>>=20
>> Perhaps Google could issue some sort of official "We promise not  to =
sue
>> Apache Foundation over the use of the name 'Apache Wave'" just to  =
make
>> everyone happy.
>=20
> Welcome to the Incubator.  Yes trademarks are taken seriously, and yes
> you've made some good points that the situation with "Wave" is =
relatively
> unique.  While these sorts of discussions can be frustrating and =
annoying
> at times, everyone here at Apache is basically just trying to be fair =
to
> both all ASF projects and past incubation efforts, and somewhat =
consistent in
> what we tell others about Incubation.  Different people have different=20=

> perspectives and they are able to openly disagree without disrupting =
progress.
> Happens all the time here.
>=20
> FWIW I can easily foresee the Incubator accepting this proposal as =
written
> and kicking around the trademark issue for a while longer post =
acceptance.
> This is just how we work.  Personally I'd be fine with an Apache Wave =
project
> graduating from the incubator, even without asking Google to abandon =
its=20
> interest in the Google Wave trademark (just as we haven't asked NCSU =
to
> abandon its interest in VCL).  We just want to avoid any potential =
confusion
> about the marks and the software they refer to.
>=20
> If we need a legal opinion from the org about the propriety of that =
solution
> I'd be happy to go fetch one, but for now let's please just move on to =
any
> other remaining issues with the proposal.


I completely agree with everything you said. Furthermore, I am quite =
satisfied based on the responses I got to my questions that Google has =
already given us permission to use Apache Wave. =20

The real question is whether the ASF is comfortable in having a project =
with that name.  For example, since Google is retaining the rights to =
Google Wave they could at any time ship a version of Apache Wave under =
that name - which, I believe, is something not currently allowed for any =
other ASF project. OTOH, Wave in a Box (or WIAB) sounds like it is =
probably quite unique.  Personally, I am torn between being consistent =
and the fact that a project named Apache Wave is going to have instant =
market appeal.

But a decision on what the formal project name will be should not =
preclude entrance to the incubator. However, the project participants =
should be aware that there is likely to be more discussion on the issue.

Ralph=

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